Hi Jaime, its Daniel, lets see if I can explain w/o confusing you. I have all sources if needed,

Sebastiana Delgado de Gabay casó Andrés de Puga, hija de José Delgado y Francisca (II) Navarro de Gabay utilizó el mismo apellido de su abuela. Francisca Navarro de Gabay es hija de Luís Tiscareño de Molina y Lorenza Ruiz de Esparza, quien es hija de don Lope (II) Ruiz de Esparza y Ana Francisca (I) Navarro de Gabay. Im sure youre aware about Lorenza de Esparza being used as descendants names. There’s a lots of Lorenza Ruiz de Esparza, etc. So to answer your question Sebastiana would be Lope’s great grandaughter, he had MANY grandchildren as you may know! I hope this helps, I think I have some stuff on Andrés but need to check! -Daniel

Jaime

I found the matrimonial investigation for Andres de Puga and Sebastiana Delgado.

My rather poor Spanish makes it hard to read, but I believe it says in part:

“Andres de Puga, Espanol natural de la Cuidad de Guadalaxa y vezino de esta Villa mas tiempo de ocho anos hijo natural de Antonio Cosin presco …”

I am pretty sure it says “hijo natural de Antonio” and not “hijo natural de Antonia”. I believe the last name is “Cosin” but this does not sound Spanish to me.

It continues

“con Sebastiana Delgado espanola natural y vezino desta Jurisdicion hija lexitima de Joseph Delgado difunto y de Franca Gabay y para que …”

The others providing statements are Nicolas de Puga, Pedro (I believe, this written on the interior margin of the page so not all the letters are readable) Romo, and Diego Delgado,

The marriage record for Joseph Delgado and Francsica Gabai states …

“Joseph Delgado nl y vecina de Pinos hijo de Diego Delgado y Jua Dias … con Franca Gabadi nl de [I’m not sure of the next word] hija legitima de Luis de Tiscareno y Lorenza Ruis de Esparsa … padrinos de velacion Lope Ruis de Esparza y Franca Gabadi sus abuelos y testigos … Diego Delgado Dominga de … y Gaspar de Palos …”

If I read these documents correctly, this answers the question.

All of these are available at the Family Search Pilot website.

George Fulton
Pleasanton, CA

Daniel

I think we have the same information! If you have the matrimonial investigation of Andres de Puga and Sebastiana Delgado, how do you read Andres de Puga’s father’s (or mother’s?) name? I have not seen a record where only a father’s name is given, but it looks much more like “Antonio” than “Antonia” to me.

George Fulton
Pleasanton, CA

Hi Daniel,

I’m confused…My original question was about Maria Luisa De San Ygnacio
Gomez De Mendoza (Jalostotitilan born abt. 27 Jun 1792). Is there a link to
her marrying Candido De Aguayo, Father to Agapito De Aguayo (born
abt.1807)???

Thanks, Jaime Gonzalez

—–Original Message—–
From: research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
[mailto:research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org] On Behalf Of
mendezdelcamino@live.com
Sent: Monday, April 27, 2009 8:15 PM
To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] For Jaime

Hi Jaime, its Daniel, lets see if I can explain w/o confusing you. I have
all sources if needed,

Sebastiana Delgado de Gabay casó Andrés de Puga, hija de José Delgado y
Francisca (II) Navarro de Gabay utilizó el mismo apellido de su abuela.
Francisca Navarro de Gabay es hija de Luís Tiscareño de Molina y Lorenza
Ruiz de Esparza, quien es hija de don Lope (II) Ruiz de Esparza y Ana
Francisca (I) Navarro de Gabay. Im sure youre aware about Lorenza de Esparza
being used as descendants names. There’s a lots of Lorenza Ruiz de Esparza,
etc. So to answer your question Sebastiana would be Lope’s great
grandaughter, he had MANY grandchildren as you may know! I hope this helps,
I think I have some stuff on Andrés but need to check! -Daniel

Hi George could you tell me exactly what page # out of ??? which film in the Aguascalientes section of the pilot site? I have a lot of experience reading the stuff on the pilot already, maybe I can take shot at it. Well the Andrés Puga is as long as he IS español he should be related to the same Pugas stated from Guadalajara. The family was originally ”de Puga y Aguilar” they married into my d’Bourbon ancestors in Guadalajara. Im still trying to figure out the Bourbon i know theyre french obviously but no luck with tracing it further than ca. 1609.
-Daniel

George and Daniel,
Thanks a lot for the information about Andres and Sebastiana.George, I searched for the Informacion Matrimonial but could not find it (gave up after hitting months and years in the wrong order). Stuart, in what page of the year 1693 did you find it? I would like to download the images.

Once again,

Thanks

Jaime Alvarado

Sebastiana Delgado is the daughter of
Joseph Delgado-Gabai and Francisca
Tiscareno de Molina y Esparza, AKA
Francisca Navarro de Gabai

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Today’s Topics:

  1. Andres de Puga and Sebastiana Delgado Gabai (alvaradj@comcast.net)

———————————————————————-

Message: 1
Date: Sun, 26 Apr 2009 21:49:00 -0700 (PDT)
From: alvaradj@comcast.net
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Andres de Puga and Sebastiana Delgado
    Gabai
To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Message-ID:
   
   
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed

Andres de Puga and Sebastiana Delgado Gabai married on May 17 1693 in Aguascalientes. Parents of the groom are not listed. Sebastiana is daughter of Joseph Delgado and Francisca Gabai. Does any one has additional information, specifically what is the relationship of Francisca to Ana Francisca Gabay, wife of Lope Ruiz de Esparza?

Jaime Alvarado

——————————

Daniel, Jaime

I am going to e-mail the pages from the matrimonial investigation for Andres de Puga. It is for the year 1693, and the entry starts on folio page 136, and goes for four folio pages.

My e-mail is aol and this is sometimes a problem with large files. The images are about 2 Mb each. If you do not receive them, please let me know.

Daniel, if you can connect Andres with other de Puga families in Guadalajara, please let me know, and I will send them individually.

These files could be a start to unravel the Gabai/Navarro/Moctezuma connections! Perhaps we should start an Album for this data.

George Fulton
Pleasanton, CA

Thanks George,

Looking forward to receive the files.

Jaime Alvarado

Its definately, Cosín, I was studying the priest’s writing! I ran it up on family search and there is some in Spain very little though mostly in Valencia. The interesting part your right it doesnt sound spanish! There seems to be alot of COUSIJN in the Netherlands, so they could be Dutch, We got to remember the Netherlands were part of Spain along with most of Europe during th 1500-1600’s. Tha Habsburgs owned most of Europe. This could explain how it got to Spain. I thought of a possibly story whats not to say Antonio (by the way its definately ANTONIO for Andrés’ father. Was dutch who traveled to Méjico? New Spain had hundreds of thousands of Europeans emiigrating! Germans, Portuguese, Italians, English, French, Spaniards, Danish, etc! An example My Friend, Liliana Ford, who is a Mexican of English descent. I didnt even know English went to New Spain. According to her dad, their family arrived prior to the Mexican Independence, what interesting things come up when doing genealogy! Ill continue reading the document w/ closer detail, Its possible since Andrés was natural his mother was “de Puga.” -Daniel

George and Daniel,
I read the informacion matrimonial for Andres de Puga and Sebastiana Delgado. There is very valuable information there. For one thing there ages are listed,
and thus Andres was born around 1667 and Sebstiana in 1668. Also, regarding Andres, his uncle Nicolas de Puga, listed as mulato, is a witness for the groom.
Nicolas de Puga was married to Maria de Sandi (married 3 October, 1677, in Aguascalientes), got their marriage record, but have not been able to locate their marriage information.Nicolas and Maria had a, a child named Nicolas de Puga Sandi (christened 23 SEP 1685 El Sagrario, Aguascalientes) also listed as mulato. Interestingly ,
Lorenzo Ruiz de Esparza, son of Lope and Francisca Gabai, in his second marriage married Josepha de Sandi a month earlier than Nicolas and Maria. Are Maria and Joseph sisters?

Jaime

—– Original Message —–
From: gpf13@aol.com
To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Monday, April 27, 2009 10:46:42 PM GMT -06:00 US/Canada Central
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Andres de Puga and Sebastiana Delgado Gabai

Jaime

I found the matrimonial investigation for Andres de Puga and Sebastiana Delgado.

My rather poor Spanish makes it hard to read, but I believe it says in part:

“Andres de Puga, Espanol natural de la Cuidad de Guadalaxa y vezino de esta Villa mas tiempo de ocho anos hijo natural de Antonio Cosin presco …”

I am pretty sure it says “hijo natural de Antonio” and not “hijo natural de Antonia”. I believe the last name is “Cosin” but this does not sound Spanish to me.

It continues

“con Sebastiana Delgado espanola natural y vezino desta Jurisdicion hija lexitima de Joseph Delgado difunto y de Franca Gabay y para que …”

The others providing statements are Nicolas de Puga, Pedro (I believe, this written on the interior margin of the page so not all the letters are readable) Romo, and Diego Delgado,

The marriage record for Joseph Delgado and Francsica Gabai states …

“Joseph Delgado nl y vecina de Pinos hijo de Diego Delgado y Jua Dias … con Franca Gabadi nl de [I’m not sure of the next word] hija legitima de Luis de Tiscareno y Lorenza Ruis de Esparsa … padrinos de velacion Lope Ruis de Esparza y Franca Gabadi sus abuelos y testigos … Diego Delgado Dominga de … y Gaspar de Palos …”

If I read these documents correctly, this answers the question.

All of these are available at the Family Search Pilot website.

George Fulton
Pleasanton, CA

Daniel and Jaime

I’m glad the files came through OK; AOL can be a challenge!

I’m glad you’re agreeing with my reading of these documents, I’m learning to read them!

You raise some interesting points. I have a friend who is of Portuguese descent (from the Azores), and many people there have Flemish ancestors. He verified this through a DNA test. Perhaps de Puga is of Portuguese/Fleming extraction?

George Fulton
Pleasanton, CA

George,

According to the Dictionary of American Family Names the surname PUGA is of
Galician origin.

Dictionary of American Family Names, Oxford University Press, ISBN
0-19-508137-4
Galician: nickname from puga ‘thorn’, ‘prickle’, probably in the figurative
sense ‘sharp’, ‘clever’.

Bill Figueroa

Bill,
I found a webpage of the Puga family in Chile ( http://www.fmlapugaenchile.cl/). The first Puga
Alferez Alonso de Puga y Novoa Lazo y Mongrovejo
arrived in Chile from Galicia in 1618.

Jaime

—– Original Message —–
From: “Bill Figueroa”
To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Wednesday, April 29, 2009 11:20:39 PM GMT -06:00 US/Canada Central
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Andres de Puga

George,

According to the Dictionary of American Family Names the surname PUGA is of
Galician origin.

Dictionary of American Family Names, Oxford University Press, ISBN
0-19-508137-4
Galician: nickname from puga ‘thorn’, ‘prickle’, probably in the figurative
sense ‘sharp’, ‘clever’.

Bill Figueroa