Dear Emilie:
I read it. About what I understood, the last name Talamantes, that was his
stepfather’s, not his real father last name that is why he appeared as
Cervantes in his record. But I do have a doubt, when was Ysac Cervantes
baptized? In the record is established when he was born, do you have the
record for his baptism?
Regards.
Erik
—– Original Message —–
From: “Emilie Garcia”
To:
Sent: Friday, August 11, 2006 2:02 PM
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Ayuda
Erik,
Did you read the e-mail I originally sent in English titled “Hijo
Legitimo/Hijo Natural”? That explains the case in detail.
Emilie
—– Original Message —–
From: Erik Reynoso
To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Friday, August 11, 2006 11:52 AM
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Ayuda
Dear Emilie:
Don’t worry about your spanish. About the case you’re telling me “h.n. de
….” means “hijo natural” meaning his parents were not married. I
personally do not think the last name of his father was the same as his
mother’s. Probably the father did not want to recognize the son and left
he
and her mother. About “h. lego”, could refer to his mother, born as a
legitimate child of his granparents.
What do you think?
Kind regards
Erik
—– Original Message —–
From: “Emilie Garcia”
<auntyemfaustus@hotmail.com>
To: <research@nuestrosranchos.org>
Sent: Friday, August 11, 2006 1:20 PM
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Ayuda
Erik,
En el caso en question que envi en mi e-mail horita donde el registro en
el
libro de hijos legitimos: en el margen escribieron “h. lego.” pero
tambien
escribieron “h. n. de—-” y solamente escribieron el nombre de la madre y
los abuelos maternos. Este hijo despues decia que el apellido de su padre
era el mismo de su madre pero el padre tenia otro apellido. El hijo usaba
el apellido de su madre. Que piensa deste caso? (Dispense mi pobre
espanol).
Emilie Garcia
Port Orchard, WA —
—– Original Message —–
From: Erik
Reynoso<mailto:ingenieria@gruposise.com.mx>
To:
research@nuestrosranchos.org<mailto:research@nuestrosranchos.org<mailto:research@nuestrosranchos.org>
Sent: Friday, August 11, 2006 10:50 AM
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Ayuda
Estimada Leticia:
Un hijo natural es un hijo bastardo, fuera del matrimonio. Por eso es
que
en
las actas aparecen los nombres de los padres aún siendo hijo natural.
Saludos
Erik Andrés Reynoso Palomar y Márquez
Dear Emilie:
I read it. About what I understood, the last name Talamantes, that was his
stepfather’s, not his real father last name that is why he appeared as
Cervantes in his record. But I do have a doubt, when was Ysac Cervantes
baptized? In the record is established when he was born, do you have the
record for his baptism?
Regards.
Erik
—– Original Message —–
From: “Emilie Garcia”
To:
Sent: Friday, August 11, 2006 2:02 PM
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Ayuda
Erik,
Did you read the e-mail I originally sent in English titled “Hijo
Legitimo/Hijo Natural”? That explains the case in detail.
Emilie
—– Original Message —–
From: Erik Reynoso
To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Friday, August 11, 2006 11:52 AM
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Ayuda
Dear Emilie:
Don’t worry about your spanish. About the case you’re telling me “h.n. de
….” means “hijo natural” meaning his parents were not married. I
personally do not think the last name of his father was the same as his
mother’s. Probably the father did not want to recognize the son and left
he
and her mother. About “h. lego”, could refer to his mother, born as a
legitimate child of his granparents.
What do you think?
Kind regards
Erik
—– Original Message —–
From: “Emilie Garcia”
<auntyemfaustus@hotmail.com>
To: <research@nuestrosranchos.org>
Sent: Friday, August 11, 2006 1:20 PM
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Ayuda
Erik,
En el caso en question que envi en mi e-mail horita donde el registro en
el
libro de hijos legitimos: en el margen escribieron “h. lego.” pero
tambien
escribieron “h. n. de—-” y solamente escribieron el nombre de la madre y
los abuelos maternos. Este hijo despues decia que el apellido de su padre
era el mismo de su madre pero el padre tenia otro apellido. El hijo usaba
el apellido de su madre. Que piensa deste caso? (Dispense mi pobre
espanol).
Emilie Garcia
Port Orchard, WA —
—– Original Message —–
From: Erik
Reynoso<mailto:ingenieria@gruposise.com.mx>
To:
research@nuestrosranchos.org<mailto:research@nuestrosranchos.org<mailto:research@nuestrosranchos.org>
Sent: Friday, August 11, 2006 10:50 AM
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Ayuda
Estimada Leticia:
Un hijo natural es un hijo bastardo, fuera del matrimonio. Por eso es
que
en
las actas aparecen los nombres de los padres aún siendo hijo natural.
Saludos
Erik Andrés Reynoso Palomar y Márquez
Erik, de casualidad no sabes porque se usavan tantos terminos?
y en que momento se decide cual termino se va a usar Natural o ilegitimo?
letty
Erik, de casualidad no sabes porque se usavan tantos terminos?
y en que momento se decide cual termino se va a usar Natural o ilegitimo?
letty
Estimada Letty:
No sabría decirte bien cuando se usaron, a estos términos podriamos sumarle
el término “hijo espurio”. Sé que hay ciertas diferencias, ahorita me puse a
checar en un diccionario on-line y al parecer así están:
Hijo espurio: hijo ilegítimo de padre desconocido.
Hijo ilegítimo: hijo de padres no casados entre sí.
Hijo natural: hijo de padres no casados que podían casarse al momento de
tenerlo.
Estos son los términos del diccionario sin embargo es distinto en la
genealogía ya que los términos se usaban y usan indistintamente, en otro
correo mencioné al Virrey Antonio de Mendoza y a su hija María de Mendoza,
ella es conocida por ser hija natural de él en muchos círculos genealógicos
sin embargo si nos apegamos al diccionario era hija ilegítima.
Cuestión de semántica.
Saludos
Erik
—– Original Message —–
From:
To:
Sent: Friday, August 11, 2006 2:36 PM
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Ayuda
> Erik, de casualidad no sabes porque se usavan tantos terminos?
> y en que momento se decide cual termino se va a usar Natural o ilegitimo?
>
> letty
Estimada Letty:
No sabría decirte bien cuando se usaron, a estos términos podriamos sumarle
el término “hijo espurio”. Sé que hay ciertas diferencias, ahorita me puse a
checar en un diccionario on-line y al parecer así están:
Hijo espurio: hijo ilegítimo de padre desconocido.
Hijo ilegítimo: hijo de padres no casados entre sí.
Hijo natural: hijo de padres no casados que podían casarse al momento de
tenerlo.
Estos son los términos del diccionario sin embargo es distinto en la
genealogía ya que los términos se usaban y usan indistintamente, en otro
correo mencioné al Virrey Antonio de Mendoza y a su hija María de Mendoza,
ella es conocida por ser hija natural de él en muchos círculos genealógicos
sin embargo si nos apegamos al diccionario era hija ilegítima.
Cuestión de semántica.
Saludos
Erik
—– Original Message —–
From:
To:
Sent: Friday, August 11, 2006 2:36 PM
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Ayuda
> Erik, de casualidad no sabes porque se usavan tantos terminos?
> y en que momento se decide cual termino se va a usar Natural o ilegitimo?
>
> letty
Erik,
Yes, I quoted the birth record for Ysac in the original message in English below. I was wondering why Ysac said his father’s name was Encarnacion Cervantes iinstead of Talamantes in the birth records for his own children.
Emilie
—Original Message—
—the Cervantes name came from Ysac’s mother Dorotea Cervantes who did not marry Encarnacion Talamantes until after Ysac’s birth and that of his two brothers. Encarnacion and Dorotea were not married until July 10, 1839, three years after the birth of Ysac and six years after the birth of Ysac’s brother Sotero. The Talamantes I believe were part Indian from Tlaltenango, and the Cerbantes’ were espanoles from Encarnacion de Diaz.
I found Ysac’s birth record for June 4, 1836 in “Hijos Legitimos” for La Encarnacion Church, Encarnacion de Diaz, Jalisco. In the margin the record reads: “h. lego.”, yet in the body of the record it reads “bautise solamente—Jose Ysac de dos dias nacido en esta Villa h. n. de Dorotea Cerbantes. A. M. Anto. Cerbantes y Juliana Rovalcaba—-. The record for Sotero reads the same, “h. lego.” in the margin, and “h. n.” in the body of the record for April 24, 1833. No father or paternal grandparents are listed in either record. —-
—– Original Message —–
From: Erik Reynoso
To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Friday, August 11, 2006 12:29 PM
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Ayuda
Dear Emilie:
I read it. About what I understood, the last name Talamantes, that was his
stepfather’s, not his real father last name that is why he appeared as
Cervantes in his record. But I do have a doubt, when was Ysac Cervantes
baptized? In the record is established when he was born, do you have the
record for his baptism?
Regards.
Erik
—– Original Message —–
From: “Emilie Garcia” <auntyemfaustus@hotmail.com>
To: <research@nuestrosranchos.org>
Sent: Friday, August 11, 2006 2:02 PM
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Ayuda
Erik,
Did you read the e-mail I originally sent in English titled “Hijo
Legitimo/Hijo Natural”? That explains the case in detail.
Emilie
—– Original Message —–
From: Erik Reynoso<mailto:ingenieria@gruposise.com.mx>
To: research@nuestrosranchos.org<mailto:research@nuestrosranchos.org<mailto:research@nuestrosranchos.org>
Sent: Friday, August 11, 2006 11:52 AM
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Ayuda
Dear Emilie:
Don’t worry about your spanish. About the case you’re telling me “h.n. de
….” means “hijo natural” meaning his parents were not married. I
personally do not think the last name of his father was the same as his
mother’s. Probably the father did not want to recognize the son and left
he
and her mother. About “h. lego”, could refer to his mother, born as a
legitimate child of his granparents.
What do you think?
Kind regards
Erik
—– Original Message —–
From: “Emilie Garcia”
<auntyemfaustus@hotmail.com<mailto:auntyemfaustus@hotmail.com<mailto:auntyemfaustus@hotmail.com>>
To: <research@nuestrosranchos.org<mailto:research@nuestrosranchos.org<mailto:research@nuestrosranchos.org>>
Sent: Friday, August 11, 2006 1:20 PM
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Ayuda
Erik,
En el caso en question que envi en mi e-mail horita donde el registro en
el
libro de hijos legitimos: en el margen escribieron “h. lego.” pero
tambien
escribieron “h. n. de—-” y solamente escribieron el nombre de la madre y
los abuelos maternos. Este hijo despues decia que el apellido de su padre
era el mismo de su madre pero el padre tenia otro apellido. El hijo usaba
el apellido de su madre. Que piensa deste caso? (Dispense mi pobre
espanol).
Emilie Garcia
Port Orchard, WA —
—– Original Message —–
From: Erik
Reynoso<mailto:ingenieria@gruposise.com.mx<mailto:ingenieria@gruposise.com.mx<mailto:ingenieria@gruposise.com.mx>>
To:
research@nuestrosranchos.org<mailto:research@nuestrosranchos.org<mailto:research@nuestrosranchos.org<mailto:research@nuestrosranchos.org<mailto:research@nuestrosranchos.org<mailto:research@nuestrosranchos.org<mailto:research@nuestrosranchos.org>>
Sent: Friday, August 11, 2006 10:50 AM
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Ayuda
Estimada Leticia:
Un hijo natural es un hijo bastardo, fuera del matrimonio. Por eso es
que
en
las actas aparecen los nombres de los padres aún siendo hijo natural.
Saludos
Erik Andrés Reynoso Palomar y Márquez
Erik,
Yes, I quoted the birth record for Ysac in the original message in English below. I was wondering why Ysac said his father’s name was Encarnacion Cervantes iinstead of Talamantes in the birth records for his own children.
Emilie
—Original Message—
—the Cervantes name came from Ysac’s mother Dorotea Cervantes who did not marry Encarnacion Talamantes until after Ysac’s birth and that of his two brothers. Encarnacion and Dorotea were not married until July 10, 1839, three years after the birth of Ysac and six years after the birth of Ysac’s brother Sotero. The Talamantes I believe were part Indian from Tlaltenango, and the Cerbantes’ were espanoles from Encarnacion de Diaz.
I found Ysac’s birth record for June 4, 1836 in “Hijos Legitimos” for La Encarnacion Church, Encarnacion de Diaz, Jalisco. In the margin the record reads: “h. lego.”, yet in the body of the record it reads “bautise solamente—Jose Ysac de dos dias nacido en esta Villa h. n. de Dorotea Cerbantes. A. M. Anto. Cerbantes y Juliana Rovalcaba—-. The record for Sotero reads the same, “h. lego.” in the margin, and “h. n.” in the body of the record for April 24, 1833. No father or paternal grandparents are listed in either record. —-
—– Original Message —–
From: Erik Reynoso
To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Friday, August 11, 2006 12:29 PM
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Ayuda
Dear Emilie:
I read it. About what I understood, the last name Talamantes, that was his
stepfather’s, not his real father last name that is why he appeared as
Cervantes in his record. But I do have a doubt, when was Ysac Cervantes
baptized? In the record is established when he was born, do you have the
record for his baptism?
Regards.
Erik
—– Original Message —–
From: “Emilie Garcia” <auntyemfaustus@hotmail.com>
To: <research@nuestrosranchos.org>
Sent: Friday, August 11, 2006 2:02 PM
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Ayuda
Erik,
Did you read the e-mail I originally sent in English titled “Hijo
Legitimo/Hijo Natural”? That explains the case in detail.
Emilie
—– Original Message —–
From: Erik Reynoso<mailto:ingenieria@gruposise.com.mx>
To: research@nuestrosranchos.org<mailto:research@nuestrosranchos.org<mailto:research@nuestrosranchos.org>
Sent: Friday, August 11, 2006 11:52 AM
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Ayuda
Dear Emilie:
Don’t worry about your spanish. About the case you’re telling me “h.n. de
….” means “hijo natural” meaning his parents were not married. I
personally do not think the last name of his father was the same as his
mother’s. Probably the father did not want to recognize the son and left
he
and her mother. About “h. lego”, could refer to his mother, born as a
legitimate child of his granparents.
What do you think?
Kind regards
Erik
—– Original Message —–
From: “Emilie Garcia”
<auntyemfaustus@hotmail.com<mailto:auntyemfaustus@hotmail.com<mailto:auntyemfaustus@hotmail.com>>
To: <research@nuestrosranchos.org<mailto:research@nuestrosranchos.org<mailto:research@nuestrosranchos.org>>
Sent: Friday, August 11, 2006 1:20 PM
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Ayuda
Erik,
En el caso en question que envi en mi e-mail horita donde el registro en
el
libro de hijos legitimos: en el margen escribieron “h. lego.” pero
tambien
escribieron “h. n. de—-” y solamente escribieron el nombre de la madre y
los abuelos maternos. Este hijo despues decia que el apellido de su padre
era el mismo de su madre pero el padre tenia otro apellido. El hijo usaba
el apellido de su madre. Que piensa deste caso? (Dispense mi pobre
espanol).
Emilie Garcia
Port Orchard, WA —
—– Original Message —–
From: Erik
Reynoso<mailto:ingenieria@gruposise.com.mx<mailto:ingenieria@gruposise.com.mx<mailto:ingenieria@gruposise.com.mx>>
To:
research@nuestrosranchos.org<mailto:research@nuestrosranchos.org<mailto:research@nuestrosranchos.org<mailto:research@nuestrosranchos.org<mailto:research@nuestrosranchos.org<mailto:research@nuestrosranchos.org<mailto:research@nuestrosranchos.org>>
Sent: Friday, August 11, 2006 10:50 AM
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Ayuda
Estimada Leticia:
Un hijo natural es un hijo bastardo, fuera del matrimonio. Por eso es
que
en
las actas aparecen los nombres de los padres aún siendo hijo natural.
Saludos
Erik Andrés Reynoso Palomar y Márquez
Dear Emilie:
That’s a difficult question that might have his origin in personal issues.
It seems intentional because you say that repeats in the birth records of
his own children. An option would be to look in the records in the region
some years before he was born for this “Encarnación Cervantes”. We could
receive a surprise by discovering that he was his real father.
Regards.
Erik
—– Original Message —–
From: “Emilie Garcia”
To:
Sent: Friday, August 11, 2006 2:57 PM
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Ayuda
Erik,
Yes, I quoted the birth record for Ysac in the original message in English
below. I was wondering why Ysac said his father’s name was Encarnacion
Cervantes iinstead of Talamantes in the birth records for his own children.
Emilie
—Original Message—
—the Cervantes name came from Ysac’s mother Dorotea Cervantes who did not
marry Encarnacion Talamantes until after Ysac’s birth and that of his two
brothers. Encarnacion and Dorotea were not married until July 10, 1839,
three years after the birth of Ysac and six years after the birth of Ysac’s
brother Sotero. The Talamantes I believe were part Indian from Tlaltenango,
and the Cerbantes’ were espanoles from Encarnacion de Diaz.
I found Ysac’s birth record for June 4, 1836 in “Hijos Legitimos” for La
Encarnacion Church, Encarnacion de Diaz, Jalisco. In the margin the record
reads: “h. lego.”, yet in the body of the record it reads “bautise
solamente—Jose Ysac de dos dias nacido en esta Villa h. n. de Dorotea
Cerbantes. A. M. Anto. Cerbantes y Juliana Rovalcaba—-. The record for
Sotero reads the same, “h. lego.” in the margin, and “h. n.” in the body of
the record for April 24, 1833. No father or paternal grandparents are listed
in either record. —-
—– Original Message —–
From: Erik Reynoso
To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Friday, August 11, 2006 12:29 PM
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Ayuda
Dear Emilie:
I read it. About what I understood, the last name Talamantes, that was his
stepfather’s, not his real father last name that is why he appeared as
Cervantes in his record. But I do have a doubt, when was Ysac Cervantes
baptized? In the record is established when he was born, do you have the
record for his baptism?
Regards.
Erik
—– Original Message —–
From: “Emilie Garcia”
<auntyemfaustus@hotmail.com>
To: <research@nuestrosranchos.org>
Sent: Friday, August 11, 2006 2:02 PM
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Ayuda
Erik,
Did you read the e-mail I originally sent in English titled “Hijo
Legitimo/Hijo Natural”? That explains the case in detail.
Emilie
—– Original Message —–
From: Erik
Reynoso<mailto:ingenieria@gruposise.com.mx>
To:
research@nuestrosranchos.org<mailto:research@nuestrosranchos.org<mailto:research@nuestrosranchos.org>
Sent: Friday, August 11, 2006 11:52 AM
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Ayuda
Dear Emilie:
Don’t worry about your spanish. About the case you’re telling me “h.n.
de
….” means “hijo natural” meaning his parents were not married. I
personally do not think the last name of his father was the same as his
mother’s. Probably the father did not want to recognize the son and left
he
and her mother. About “h. lego”, could refer to his mother, born as a
legitimate child of his granparents.
What do you think?
Kind regards
Erik
—– Original Message —–
From: “Emilie Garcia”
<auntyemfaustus@hotmail.com<mailto:auntyemfaustus@hotmail.com<mailto:auntyemfaustus@hotmail.com>>
To:
<research@nuestrosranchos.org<mailto:research@nuestrosranchos.org<mailto:research@nuestrosranchos.org>>
Sent: Friday, August 11, 2006 1:20 PM
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Ayuda
Erik,
En el caso en question que envi en mi e-mail horita donde el registro en
el
libro de hijos legitimos: en el margen escribieron “h. lego.” pero
tambien
escribieron “h. n. de—-” y solamente escribieron el nombre de la madre
y
los abuelos maternos. Este hijo despues decia que el apellido de su
padre
era el mismo de su madre pero el padre tenia otro apellido. El hijo
usaba
el apellido de su madre. Que piensa deste caso? (Dispense mi pobre
espanol).
Emilie Garcia
Port Orchard, WA —
—– Original Message —–
From: Erik
Reynoso<mailto:ingenieria@gruposise.com.mx<mailto:ingenieria@gruposise.com.mx<mailto:ingenieria@gruposise.com.mx>>
To:
research@nuestrosranchos.org<mailto:research@nuestrosranchos.org<mailto:research@nuestrosranchos.org<mailto:research@nuestrosranchos.org<mailto:research@nuestrosranchos.org<mailto:research@nuestrosranchos.org<mailto:research@nuestrosranchos.org>>
Sent: Friday, August 11, 2006 10:50 AM
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Ayuda
Estimada Leticia:
Un hijo natural es un hijo bastardo, fuera del matrimonio. Por eso es
que
en
las actas aparecen los nombres de los padres aún siendo hijo natural.
Saludos
Erik Andrés Reynoso Palomar y Márquez
Dear Emilie:
That’s a difficult question that might have his origin in personal issues.
It seems intentional because you say that repeats in the birth records of
his own children. An option would be to look in the records in the region
some years before he was born for this “Encarnación Cervantes”. We could
receive a surprise by discovering that he was his real father.
Regards.
Erik
—– Original Message —–
From: “Emilie Garcia”
To:
Sent: Friday, August 11, 2006 2:57 PM
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Ayuda
Erik,
Yes, I quoted the birth record for Ysac in the original message in English
below. I was wondering why Ysac said his father’s name was Encarnacion
Cervantes iinstead of Talamantes in the birth records for his own children.
Emilie
—Original Message—
—the Cervantes name came from Ysac’s mother Dorotea Cervantes who did not
marry Encarnacion Talamantes until after Ysac’s birth and that of his two
brothers. Encarnacion and Dorotea were not married until July 10, 1839,
three years after the birth of Ysac and six years after the birth of Ysac’s
brother Sotero. The Talamantes I believe were part Indian from Tlaltenango,
and the Cerbantes’ were espanoles from Encarnacion de Diaz.
I found Ysac’s birth record for June 4, 1836 in “Hijos Legitimos” for La
Encarnacion Church, Encarnacion de Diaz, Jalisco. In the margin the record
reads: “h. lego.”, yet in the body of the record it reads “bautise
solamente—Jose Ysac de dos dias nacido en esta Villa h. n. de Dorotea
Cerbantes. A. M. Anto. Cerbantes y Juliana Rovalcaba—-. The record for
Sotero reads the same, “h. lego.” in the margin, and “h. n.” in the body of
the record for April 24, 1833. No father or paternal grandparents are listed
in either record. —-
—– Original Message —–
From: Erik Reynoso
To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Friday, August 11, 2006 12:29 PM
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Ayuda
Dear Emilie:
I read it. About what I understood, the last name Talamantes, that was his
stepfather’s, not his real father last name that is why he appeared as
Cervantes in his record. But I do have a doubt, when was Ysac Cervantes
baptized? In the record is established when he was born, do you have the
record for his baptism?
Regards.
Erik
—– Original Message —–
From: “Emilie Garcia”
<auntyemfaustus@hotmail.com>
To: <research@nuestrosranchos.org>
Sent: Friday, August 11, 2006 2:02 PM
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Ayuda
Erik,
Did you read the e-mail I originally sent in English titled “Hijo
Legitimo/Hijo Natural”? That explains the case in detail.
Emilie
—– Original Message —–
From: Erik
Reynoso<mailto:ingenieria@gruposise.com.mx>
To:
research@nuestrosranchos.org<mailto:research@nuestrosranchos.org<mailto:research@nuestrosranchos.org>
Sent: Friday, August 11, 2006 11:52 AM
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Ayuda
Dear Emilie:
Don’t worry about your spanish. About the case you’re telling me “h.n.
de
….” means “hijo natural” meaning his parents were not married. I
personally do not think the last name of his father was the same as his
mother’s. Probably the father did not want to recognize the son and left
he
and her mother. About “h. lego”, could refer to his mother, born as a
legitimate child of his granparents.
What do you think?
Kind regards
Erik
—– Original Message —–
From: “Emilie Garcia”
<auntyemfaustus@hotmail.com<mailto:auntyemfaustus@hotmail.com<mailto:auntyemfaustus@hotmail.com>>
To:
<research@nuestrosranchos.org<mailto:research@nuestrosranchos.org<mailto:research@nuestrosranchos.org>>
Sent: Friday, August 11, 2006 1:20 PM
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Ayuda
Erik,
En el caso en question que envi en mi e-mail horita donde el registro en
el
libro de hijos legitimos: en el margen escribieron “h. lego.” pero
tambien
escribieron “h. n. de—-” y solamente escribieron el nombre de la madre
y
los abuelos maternos. Este hijo despues decia que el apellido de su
padre
era el mismo de su madre pero el padre tenia otro apellido. El hijo
usaba
el apellido de su madre. Que piensa deste caso? (Dispense mi pobre
espanol).
Emilie Garcia
Port Orchard, WA —
—– Original Message —–
From: Erik
Reynoso<mailto:ingenieria@gruposise.com.mx<mailto:ingenieria@gruposise.com.mx<mailto:ingenieria@gruposise.com.mx>>
To:
research@nuestrosranchos.org<mailto:research@nuestrosranchos.org<mailto:research@nuestrosranchos.org<mailto:research@nuestrosranchos.org<mailto:research@nuestrosranchos.org<mailto:research@nuestrosranchos.org<mailto:research@nuestrosranchos.org>>
Sent: Friday, August 11, 2006 10:50 AM
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Ayuda
Estimada Leticia:
Un hijo natural es un hijo bastardo, fuera del matrimonio. Por eso es
que
en
las actas aparecen los nombres de los padres aún siendo hijo natural.
Saludos
Erik Andrés Reynoso Palomar y Márquez
Gracias Erik
tu definiciones me ayudan mucho, Letty
Gracias Erik
tu definiciones me ayudan mucho, Letty
Here’s yet another example of acceptable unions in small towns, although not
recognized by church or civilly until actually married:
My mother-in-law “fue robada”, which was often done in the olden days were
dating was not permitted. The two fell in love, and made a pact whereby she
would literally be swept away (on a horse) and taken to the hills for a
weekend. Upon returning, everyone knew that this was now a union, and she went to
stay at her mother-in-law’s house where within a time when all the “hoopla”
of the event subsided, they made plans to marry quietly through the church and
civilly. She has never told me if this occurred before or after my husband
was born. Obviously, this was a widely accepted way of getting together with
two families who would not have normally blessed the marriage (my mother in
law came from an extremely poor family while my father in law came from a
wealthier family). To this day, neither sides of the family really intermingle
– and this is a very small town!
I am therefore thinking that hijo natural could have been from such a union
while subsequent siblings were hijos legitimos. So far as the law is
concerned, only the legitimate children of such a union could inherit property.
Esperanza
Chicagoland area
Here’s yet another example of acceptable unions in small towns, although not
recognized by church or civilly until actually married:
My mother-in-law “fue robada”, which was often done in the olden days were
dating was not permitted. The two fell in love, and made a pact whereby she
would literally be swept away (on a horse) and taken to the hills for a
weekend. Upon returning, everyone knew that this was now a union, and she went to
stay at her mother-in-law’s house where within a time when all the “hoopla”
of the event subsided, they made plans to marry quietly through the church and
civilly. She has never told me if this occurred before or after my husband
was born. Obviously, this was a widely accepted way of getting together with
two families who would not have normally blessed the marriage (my mother in
law came from an extremely poor family while my father in law came from a
wealthier family). To this day, neither sides of the family really intermingle
– and this is a very small town!
I am therefore thinking that hijo natural could have been from such a union
while subsequent siblings were hijos legitimos. So far as the law is
concerned, only the legitimate children of such a union could inherit property.
Esperanza
Chicagoland area
Esperanza you reminded me of my paternal grandparents marriage story in Jerez Zacatecas in 1914. My 20 year old grandfather Epitacio Castanon was away from home with his donkey caravan selling booze when he was robbed by bandits. They were going to take his mules and he told them if they did he’d be out of business with no more booze to sell in their territory so they let him keep his donkeys. When he got home to El Durazno he found his friend had stolen his girlfriend and married her. So my grandfather stole his friends jilted girlfriend Juana Sanchez. She was still 14 so he left her at the priests house for 3 days until she turned 15 then he married her in a civil ceremony and then later in a church ceremony.. She said he stole her from her home so she had to marry him. They remained married until his death in 1965. Your story is the first other ‘stolen’ bride story I had heard. Thank you for sharing the memory.
Linda in B.C.
Latina1955@aol.com wrote:
Here’s yet another example of acceptable unions in small towns, although not
recognized by church or civilly until actually married:
My mother-in-law “fue robada”, which was often done in the olden days were
dating was not permitted. The two fell in love, and made a pact whereby she
would literally be swept away (on a horse) and taken to the hills for a
weekend. Upon returning, everyone knew that this was now a union, and she went to
stay at her mother-in-law’s house where within a time when all the “hoopla”
of the event subsided, they made plans to marry quietly through the church and
civilly. She has never told me if this occurred before or after my husband
was born. Obviously, this was a widely accepted way of getting together with
two families who would not have normally blessed the marriage (my mother in
law came from an extremely poor family while my father in law came from a
wealthier family). To this day, neither sides of the family really intermingle
– and this is a very small town!
I am therefore thinking that hijo natural could have been from such a union
while subsequent siblings were hijos legitimos. So far as the law is
concerned, only the legitimate children of such a union could inherit property.
Esperanza
Chicagoland area
