Thank you Armando and other members, I’m learning something new everyday! Alice Blake
— On Thu, 7/21/11, Armando wrote:
From: Armando
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Dispensas
To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Date: Thursday, July 21, 2011, 4:00 AM
Alice and Jaime,
I just remembered there was a very informative post here at NuestrosRanchos
by George Fulton on the subject of dispensas for Monterrey. You should read
that one. It is at http://www.nuestrosranchos.org/node/19548 I guess the
Linares diocese is simplified as being from that of Michoacan even though it
was mostly from Guadalajara.
Armando
On Wed, Jul 20, 2011 at 8:56 PM, Armando wrote:
> Hello Alice and Jaime,
>
> I was going by what the websites said that I had found and provided
> earlier. It seems you two will have to be the ones that can give us the
> answers. I searched for more info on the dioceses and did a lot of reading
> but I couldn’t find anything that provided where dispensas would be located
> or why the bishop of Guadalajara would be opening schools in Nuevo León when
> it was under the diocese of Michoacán. Much less historical maps. Sorry I
> couldn’t be of more help on the subject.
> The dispensas are normally by date but many times are out of range and
> sometimes in a completely different volume. Hopefully someday they all get
> indexed first and placed online and then fully transcribed at a later date.
> My understanding is Luz Montejano Hilton didn’t get all of them into her
> book. They can be extremely valuable records for us.
>
> Armando
>
>
> On Wed, Jul 20, 2011 at 5:36 PM, Alice Blake wrote:
>
>> Jaime,
>> Not sure that you saw my prior post on Nuevo Leon and the Guadalajara
>> diocese regarding the appointment of my 6grgrandfather Martin Arrambide
>> Arsa. I don’t mind researching, but I’d like to think that I’m not barking
>> up the wrong tree, either. I’d like to research his informacion matrimonial
>> regarding his marriage of 11/22/1762 in Salinas Victoria, NL. I’ve never
>> researched the dispensas in the Guadalajara diocese and I’d like to go about
>> it intelligently. Are they listed by state, city, or simply by date?
>> Thanks so much for your help.
>> Alice Blake
>>
>> — On Wed, 7/20/11, Jaime R. Alvarado wrote:
>>
>>
>> From: Jaime R. Alvarado
>> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Dispensas
>> To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
>> Date: Wednesday, July 20, 2011, 9:45 PM
>>
>>
>> Armando,
>> I did not know that Nuevo Leon was at any time under the Dioceses of
>> Michoacan. All the dispensas I’ve found for Nuevo Leon, prior to 15 of
>> December of 1777 when the “Arzobispado de Monterrey” was established, were
>> in the Sagrada Mitra de Guadalajara. I would be very interested in learning
>> which period or locations in Nuevo Leon were under the jurisdiction of
>> Michoacan, as it may be useful to locate certain records for my Nuevo Leon
>> side of my family, that I’ve been unable to find elsehwere.
>>
>> Armando,
>> Yo no sabia que Nuevo Leon estuvo bajo la Diocesis de Michoacan. Todas la
>> dispensa que he encontrado para Nuevo Leon, previas al 15 de diciembre de
>> 1777, cuando se fundo el Arzobispado de Monterrey, estaban en la Sagrada
>> Mitra de Guadalajara. Estoy muy interesado en conocer en que periodo, o que
>> localidades de Nuevo Leon estuvieron bajo la jurisdiccion de Michoacan, ya
>> que me seria muy util para buscar ciertos registros de familiares
>> originarios de Nuevo Leon que no he podido localizar aun.
>>
>>
>> Saludos
>>
>> Jaime Alvarado
Jaime,
Would a couple have an informacion matrimonial entered first at the parish level and then if necessary, a dispensa at the diocese level? Thanks so much, Alice Blake
— On Wed, 7/27/11, Jaime R. Alvarado wrote:
From: Jaime R. Alvarado
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Dispensas
To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Date: Wednesday, July 27, 2011, 5:38 AM
Alice,
Unfortunately the ‘dispensas’ were never sorted from its origins into volumes by city or state. However, because of the extreme endogamy of Nuevo Leon, the number of dispensas corresponding to that region is striking. In addition, similar to local ‘Licencias Matrimoniales’ the chronological order is not followed at the time these records were photo-documented.
Sincerely
Jaime Alvarado
Alice,
That is my impression. I recently stumbled into an instance,that indicates that was the case as the consanguinity was discovered for a couple after such information was disclosed in the marriage investigation of their respective brother-sister. That marriage of several years, and several children, was declared invalid and the couple was ordered to live separately. They had to go through the entire process, beginning with “informacion matrimonial” and a “dispensa’ from Guadalajara, and eventually they were remarried. This example may explain a couple of instances among members of my family in Nuevo Leon where I found two separate weddings between individuals with the same names as well as those of their parents. At the time I though it was a remarkable coincidence.
Sincerely
Jaime
Jaime I found the same thing in Jerez, Zacatecas Mexico where a couple discovers they have a blood relationship and separate until the dispensation is granted and then they remarry. In fact I’ve found it 2 or 3 times.
thank you for sharing
Linda in B.C.
From: Jaime R. Alvarado
To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Thursday, July 28, 2011 9:51 PM
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Dispensas
Alice,
That is my impression. I recently stumbled into an instance,that indicates that was the case as the consanguinity was discovered for a couple after such information was disclosed in the marriage investigation of their respective brother-sister. That marriage of several years, and several children, was declared invalid and the couple was ordered to live separately. They had to go through the entire process, beginning with “informacion matrimonial” and a “dispensa’ from Guadalajara, and eventually they were remarried. This example may explain a couple of instances among members of my family in Nuevo Leon where I found two separate weddings between individuals with the same names as well as those of their parents. At the time I though it was a remarkable coincidence.
Sincerely
Jaime
Thanks for your information, Jaime. In as little time as I’ve been researching my genealogy, I’ve come to realize all things are possible.
Alice Blake
— On Fri, 7/29/11, Jaime R. Alvarado wrote:
From: Jaime R. Alvarado
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Dispensas
To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Date: Friday, July 29, 2011, 4:51 AM
Alice,
That is my impression. I recently stumbled into an instance,that indicates that was the case as the consanguinity was discovered for a couple after such information was disclosed in the marriage investigation of their respective brother-sister. That marriage of several years, and several children, was declared invalid and the couple was ordered to live separately. They had to go through the entire process, beginning with “informacion matrimonial” and a “dispensa’ from Guadalajara, and eventually they were remarried. This example may explain a couple of instances among members of my family in Nuevo Leon where I found two separate weddings between individuals with the same names as well as those of their parents. At the time I though it was a remarkable coincidence.
Sincerely
Jaime
