The following is from my father’s birth record…
If I understand it correctly, my father is half Native American.
Can someone please translate this and confirm what I think I’m reading?
The following is from my father’s birth record…
If I understand it correctly, my father is half Native American.
Can someone please translate this and confirm what I think I’m reading?
“Jose Rogaciano del Real hijo natural del comparente y de Maria Dolores Villasenor, de veinticinco anos, que es el primero en su estado, sindo sus progenitores de raza indigeno blanco y mexicanos por nacimient.”
The actual document is posted in my folder if looking at the original will help.
http://www.nuestrosranchos.org/UncleRelic
Thanks in advance,
Roy
Roy,
As I understand it, it says,
* que es primero en su estado, meaning being the first in his state or condition
* siendo sus progenitores de raza indigena – his progenitors being of an indigenous race
* blanco y mejicanos por nacimiento – white and Mexicans through birth
Alicia,
San Jose, Ca
________________________________
From: “rvr_jr@msn.com”
To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Tuesday, July 3, 2012 1:13 PM
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Help me understand the race notation.
The following is from my father’s birth record…
If I understand it correctly, my father is half Native American.
Can someone please translate this and confirm what I think I’m reading?
“Jose Rogaciano del Real hijo natural del comparente y de Maria Dolores Villasenor, de veinticinco anos, que es el primero en su estado, sindo sus progenitores de raza indigeno blanco y mexicanos por nacimient.”
The actual document is posted in my folder if looking at the original will help.
http://www.nuestrosranchos.org/UncleRelic
Thanks in advance,
Roy
Thank you Alica,
I guess I should get my DNA tested to termine which line is indigenous.
Roy
Roy,
I have a Nuestros Ranchos cousin, Juan Aguayo who had his admixture DNA done, you might want to consult with him. I think he used Family Tree DNA when they had the special rate going.
Remember, the scribes are not always correct in what they note on the records, so take this as an initial discovery but keep searching for corroborating facts and data with siblings, aunts, uncles grandparents etc.
Alicia,
San Jose, Ca
________________________________
From: “rvr_jr@msn.com”
To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Tuesday, July 3, 2012 7:49 PM
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Help me understand the
Thank you Alica,
I guess I should get my DNA tested to termine which line is indigenous.
Roy
Alicia,
I am already looking at FamilyTreeDNA (Y-DNA37+mtDNAPlus).
My father told me on numerous occasions that we had Indian, Spanish, and French blood. He just didn’t know the details.
I only recently started tracing my father’s line, so I know there’s a long road ahead.
Thanks again,
Roy
Here are a couple of links to help understand haplogroups:
Wikipedia Haplogroup Q1a3a1(Y-DNA
and another here:
www.familytreedna.com
Topete
It is very doubtful you have French blood. There is a persistent false myth
that French blood exists in high quantities in our area of research (Nueva
Galicia) due to the large number of güeros with blond or red hair and blue
or green eyes and the French intervention in Mexico, as if there weren’t
Spaniards that have those characteristics and the people in our area didn’t
already look like that. Apart from that there is no proof whatsoever of the
people of the French intervention mixing with the people of Nueva Galicia
and many güeros have documented ancestry going back many centuries before
the French intervention. That isn’t to say you don’t or can’t have French
blood from an immigrant but the likelihood is probably about a 2% chance.
You might be able to save a little by getting the FamilyTreeDNA
(Y-DNA37+mtDNAPlus) through the Mexico DNA group project
http://www.familytreedna.com/group-join.aspx?Group=Mexico-DNA
Saludos,
Armando
On Tue, Jul 3, 2012 at 11:26 PM, wrote:
> Alicia,
> I am already looking at FamilyTreeDNA (Y-DNA37+mtDNAPlus).
>
> My father told me on numerous occasions that we had Indian, Spanish, and
> French blood. He just didn’t know the details.
>
> I only recently started tracing my father’s line, so I know there’s a long
> road ahead.
> Thanks again,
>
> Roy
my Castanon family is from the district of Jerez, Zac and I was also told we had French blood so the elders were a bit put off when I found no French lineage but Mulato, Spanish and Yndio.. they insisted there had never been any black slaves in Jerez.. people don’t always like what our research shows them. I felt previleged to share the blood of the history of Mexico but not everyone will feel that way.
On a side not Mande was what was always said to the grandparents.
Linda in B.C.
________________________________
From: Armando
To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Thursday, July 5, 2012 2:34 PM
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Help me understand the
It is very doubtful you have French blood. There is a persistent false myth
that French blood exists in high quantities in our area of research (Nueva
Galicia) due to the large number of güeros with blond or red hair and blue
or green eyes and the French intervention in Mexico, as if there weren’t
Spaniards that have those characteristics and the people in our area didn’t
already look like that. Apart from that there is no proof whatsoever of the
people of the French intervention mixing with the people of Nueva Galicia
and many güeros have documented ancestry going back many centuries before
the French intervention. That isn’t to say you don’t or can’t have French
blood from an immigrant but the likelihood is probably about a 2% chance.
You might be able to save a little by getting the FamilyTreeDNA
(Y-DNA37+mtDNAPlus) through the Mexico DNA group project
http://www.familytreedna.com/group-join.aspx?Group=Mexico-DNA
Saludos,
Armando
On Tue, Jul 3, 2012 at 11:26 PM, wrote:
> Alicia,
> I am already looking at FamilyTreeDNA (Y-DNA37+mtDNAPlus).
>
> My father told me on numerous occasions that we had Indian, Spanish, and
> French blood. He just didn’t know the details.
>
> I only recently started tracing my father’s line, so I know there’s a long
> road ahead.
> Thanks again,
>
> Roy
Hello,
That is hilarious. My elders also said we had a french background when my geneology research show that we go back several generations in Tlatenango (to 1600’s or before) and sourrounding areas and that our ancesters were mainly Spanish. They were also very upset to find out we had Spanish blood and insited no one was Spanish.
Go figure.
Pauline
—–Original Message—–
>From: Erlinda Castanon-Long
>Sent: Jul 5, 2012 4:01 PM
>To: “research@nuestrosranchos.org”
>Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Help me understand the
>
>my Castanon family is from the district of Jerez, Zac and I was also told we had French blood so the elders were a bit put off when I found no French lineage but Mulato, Spanish and Yndio.. they insisted there had never been any black slaves in Jerez.. people don’t always like what our research shows them. I felt previleged to share the blood of the history of Mexico but not everyone will feel that way.
>On a side not Mande was what was always said to the grandparents.
>Linda in B.C.
>
>
>________________________________
> From: Armando
>To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
>Sent: Thursday, July 5, 2012 2:34 PM
>Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Help me understand the
>
>It is very doubtful you have French blood. There is a persistent false myth
>that French blood exists in high quantities in our area of research (Nueva
>Galicia) due to the large number of güeros with blond or red hair and blue
>or green eyes and the French intervention in Mexico, as if there weren’t
>Spaniards that have those characteristics and the people in our area didn’t
>already look like that. Apart from that there is no proof whatsoever of the
>people of the French intervention mixing with the people of Nueva Galicia
>and many güeros have documented ancestry going back many centuries before
>the French intervention. That isn’t to say you don’t or can’t have French
>blood from an immigrant but the likelihood is probably about a 2% chance.
>
>You might be able to save a little by getting the FamilyTreeDNA
>(Y-DNA37+mtDNAPlus) through the Mexico DNA group project
> http://www.familytreedna.com/group-join.aspx?Group=Mexico-DNA
>
>
>Saludos,
>Armando
>
>On Tue, Jul 3, 2012 at 11:26 PM, wrote:
>
>> Alicia,
>> I am already looking at FamilyTreeDNA (Y-DNA37+mtDNAPlus).
>>
>> My father told me on numerous occasions that we had Indian, Spanish, and
>> French blood. He just didn’t know the details.
>>
>> I only recently started tracing my father’s line, so I know there’s a long
>> road ahead.
>> Thanks again,
>>
>> Roy
Armando,
Within the last month, I have discovered more about my father’s family than anyone would have guessed. Regretably, he is no longer with us to know of these things.
I went ahead and joined the Felix group and ordered the DNA kit (Y-DNA37+mtDNAPlus).
When the Family Finder goes on sale, I’ll will also order that.
Not to offend anyone, but I’m totally indifferent to having any French heritage. Whatever is…is. I’ve traced my maternal family back to the 1400’s in Italy, so it would be great to ultimately find my paternal family in Spain in the same timeframe.
As a new member of NR, I am quite impressed with the level of knowledge, sharing, and committment of yourself and fellow members. Having said that, I would appreciate hearing from anyone with information on a del Real line from Tlaltenanco de Sanchez Roman. My early research has my paternal lineage back to Ignacio del Real, married to Lucia Valenzuela, born around 1825-1830. Parents of Don Bernardo del Real, born 1849 and married to Maria Isabel Caballero on 21Aug1883.
Saludos,
Roy
Let us know your results when they come in. Once you get your Y-DNA
haplogroup you can have a subclade test done which will provide you a less
generalized area and time for what group you belong to. Family Finder might
help you but in a generalized sense.
I’ve been wanting to create a Genealogy 101 for NR. Something we do when we
first start is fail to realize that the baptisms post 1800 will have the
abuelos a majority of the time. Another thing to take into consideration is
that some people were just as mobile as we are today. Just because your
studies have taken you to Zacatecas doesn’t mean it is the only place you
will find what you are looking for. For example Ygnacio Del Real, Lucia
Valenzuela had a child in Jalisco. Abuelos Paternos Don Felis del Real and
Doña Gertrudis Herrera.
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-18455-32968-35?cc=1874591&wc=12506361I
think the name Felis is a mistake and it is really Felipe since there
is
a couple named Felipe del Real and Gertrudis Herrera in Jalisco in the time
frame that fits.
The following user submitted tree shows the full names are Felipe del Real
Valenzuela and Maria Gertrudis Herrera Sanchez married 28 May 1801 Santo
Thomas, Momax, Zacatecas https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.2.1/SBPY-Q97
The parents are Antonio del Real and Maria or Maria Ana Valenzuela who had
children in Colotlán, Jalisco
Something else that should be part of the Geneaology 101 is to find all of
the baptisms and marriages of anyone with the same last name and annotate
the padrinos. Don’t just concentrate on your direct line. You can gain info
on your own ancestrors from trees of distant relatives. Review all of the
baptisms, marriages, and información matrimonial records and record the
information. The información matrimonial records are a valuable tool and
since they haven’t been indexed they have to be looked at a page at a time
and sometimes are in the wrong volume.
There are several people with the Real surname that had a dispensa follow
the link http://www.guadalajaradispensas.com/search?q=real use ctrl+F and
search for real.
If you can’t find anymore records hopefully you find a DNA match with
someone that has a longer paper trail than you.
I try to educate everyone that brings up this French myth that the vast
majority of the time it is false and widespread without much basis. I’m not
concerned about whether people are indifferent to the myth or not. I’m
concerned with people spreading falsehoods.
By the way if you are the person that said you never learned Spanish it is
never too late to try and you have more opportunities now than ever with it
being so ubiquitous.
Saludos,
Armando
On Thu, Jul 5, 2012 at 11:57 PM, wrote:
> Armando,
> Within the last month, I have discovered more about my father’s family
> than anyone would have guessed. Regretably, he is no longer with us to
> know of these things.
>
> I went ahead and joined the Felix group and ordered the DNA kit
> (Y-DNA37+mtDNAPlus).
> When the Family Finder goes on sale, I’ll will also order that.
>
> Not to offend anyone, but I’m totally indifferent to having any French
> heritage. Whatever is…is. I’ve traced my maternal family back to the
> 1400’s in Italy, so it would be great to ultimately find my paternal family
> in Spain in the same timeframe.
> As a new member of NR, I am quite impressed with the level of knowledge,
> sharing, and committment of yourself and fellow members. Having said that,
> I would appreciate hearing from anyone with information on a del Real line
> from Tlaltenanco de Sanchez Roman. My early research has my paternal
> lineage back to Ignacio del Real, married to Lucia Valenzuela, born around
> 1825-1830. Parents of Don Bernardo del Real, born 1849 and married to
> Maria Isabel Caballero on 21Aug1883.
>
> Saludos,
> Roy
>
>
Armando and other Nuestros Ranchos Members:
Why do you think so many people perpetuate the myth that they’re French or have French lineage? I simply cannot understand the why. I know I’ve heard it said by some people in our family and when I tell people that I’ve done some genealogical research, inevitably this comes up and they say that they are descended from the French. I hear it all the time and I’ve even alienated some people when I give them a few facts as to the short time period in which the French occupied Mexico and that it’s simply not possible or very unlikely that they could be French.
The British, French and Spanish arrived in Mexico during the Mexican reform period beginning in October of 1861 because Presidente Juarez had refused to pay Mexico’s foreign debts.
The French first occupied Puebla, and were defeated on 5 de Mayo of 1862, hence el Cinco de Mayo. The following May, the French again attacked Puebla, then proceeded to Mexico City where they took over the government. Maximilian was asked to accept the Mexican Crown for the French, which he did in accordance with Napolean’s plans and wishes. Maximilian arrived in 1864 with his wife Carlota and In 1866, Napolean began recalling the French troops from Mexico. In 1867, Maximilan was tried and executed in Mexico.
So the French were in Mexico from 1861 to 1867. I’m curious to hear what people’s thoughts are on this issue of so many people claiming they are French in Mexico.
Alicia,
San Jose, Ca
________________________________
Armando,
Thank you for the links – it led me to my 3rd and 4th Great Grandparents.
I have now identified two lines of Valenzuela females that married del Real males.
A Genealogy tutorial sounds like a great idea. Sign me up!
Regretably, I had no idea I was “perpetuating the myth” of French ancestry. My father was told that as a child and had no reason to disbelieve it.
My DNA results will certainly be shared when received.
Saludos,
Roy
p.s. I am working on my Spanish.
actually I did find 2 marriages in Jerez, Zac for former French soldiers marrying women from Jerez.. So there are 2 families with French blood in Jerez one who did have children there.
Linda in B.C.
________________________________
From: Alicia Carrillo
To: “research@nuestrosranchos.org”
Sent: Friday, July 6, 2012 1:41 AM
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] French or not?
Armando and other Nuestros Ranchos Members:
Why do you think so many people perpetuate the myth that they’re French or have French lineage? I simply cannot understand the why. I know I’ve heard it said by some people in our family and when I tell people that I’ve done some genealogical research, inevitably this comes up and they say that they are descended from the French. I hear it all the time and I’ve even alienated some people when I give them a few facts as to the short time period in which the French occupied Mexico and that it’s simply not possible or very unlikely that they could be French.
The British, French and Spanish arrived in Mexico during the Mexican reform period beginning in October of 1861 because Presidente Juarez had refused to pay Mexico’s foreign debts.
The French first occupied Puebla, and were defeated on 5 de Mayo of 1862, hence el Cinco de Mayo. The following May, the French again attacked Puebla, then proceeded to Mexico City where they took over the government. Maximilian was asked to accept the Mexican Crown for the French, which he did in accordance with Napolean’s plans and wishes. Maximilian arrived in 1864 with his wife Carlota and In 1866, Napolean began recalling the French troops from Mexico. In 1867, Maximilan was tried and executed in Mexico.
So the French were in Mexico from 1861 to 1867. I’m curious to hear what people’s thoughts are on this issue of so many people claiming they are French in Mexico.
Alicia,
San Jose, Ca
________________________________
I found one in Jalpa Zac, named Blondell but to date, I have not found any in Nochistlan where a heavy battle was waged in 1864.
________________________________
From: Erlinda Castanon-Long
To: “research@nuestrosranchos.org”
Sent: Friday, July 6, 2012 7:38 AM
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] French or not?
actually I did find 2 marriages in Jerez, Zac for former French soldiers marrying women from Jerez.. So there are 2 families with French blood in Jerez one who did have children there.
Linda in B.C.
________________________________
From: Alicia Carrillo
To: “research@nuestrosranchos.org”
Sent: Friday, July 6, 2012 1:41 AM
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] French or not?
Armando and other Nuestros Ranchos Members:
Why do you think so many people perpetuate the myth that they’re French or have French lineage? I simply cannot understand the why. I know I’ve heard it said by some people in our family and when I tell people that I’ve done some genealogical research, inevitably this comes up and they say that they are descended from the French. I hear it all the time and I’ve even alienated some people when I give them a few facts as to the short time period in which the French occupied Mexico and that it’s simply not possible or very unlikely that they could be French.
The British, French and Spanish arrived in Mexico during the Mexican reform period beginning in October of 1861 because Presidente Juarez had refused to pay Mexico’s foreign debts.
The French first occupied Puebla, and were defeated on 5 de Mayo of 1862, hence el Cinco de Mayo. The following May, the French again attacked Puebla, then proceeded to Mexico City where they took over the government. Maximilian was asked to accept the Mexican Crown for the French, which he did in accordance with Napolean’s plans and wishes. Maximilian arrived in 1864 with his wife Carlota and In 1866, Napolean began recalling the French troops from Mexico. In 1867, Maximilan was tried and executed in Mexico.
So the French were in Mexico from 1861 to 1867. I’m curious to hear what people’s thoughts are on this issue of so many people claiming they are French in Mexico.
Alicia,
San Jose, Ca
________________________________
