Yup, eye color can skip generation also hair color, my father is blue and my mother is greenI have brown eyes, I have one grandparent with brown eyes. The rest are light eyes. My father is “brunette” (Ha ha) and my mother is a blonde. I have my father’s hair. I think genetics with genealogy makes a good project!
Daniel
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I am glad that we had the discussion the last time because it forced me to set aside all other research and direct my focus on this issue to find the truth and I now have more solid information about these lines. As busy as life has come at me lately, I probably would not have thrown myself only in that direction to backup what I already had. It was through that focus that I was able to gather a gold mine of information from threads there for the pulling that I had missed before.
As to the french ancestors of the rodriguez defrias y hijar los altos, the first immigrants would have known about their french ancestor because there is so much story, drama, in his life and that of his french family. The drama continued as they made their impact in spain.
That it was something to pass on because at first it set you apart from the other familys around you that had already intermarried so much, though his wife was of the mendoza family that was part of all the intermarriage. There is a portrait of this french ancestor hanging in a museum in Paris france.
You can also look much further back in the family tree and look at how often eleanor of Aquitane shows up as an ancestor to the first families of jalisco through both her english children from her 2nd marriage and one of her French daughters from her 1st marriage.
While I find the jewish, moor and french lines to be true in my case, it is also a reality that as we look at the percentage of the genetic makeup of our ancestors that they make up only a relatively small part of our genetic pool.
Just because it is small does not make it irrelevant to me. And the small portion of the pool keeps getting larger the more I research.
The research has also proved that some lines did not intermarry with these minorities.
It was interesting to find that the assertations of some of our Ancestors of having no jewish blood and being from old christian families was because a Roman Catholic Pope wrote a statement making descendents of this jewish family all cristianos viejos because they had intermingled, intermarried so much with the royalty and the nobility, because they had done so much work in the catholic church, and because they came from the same tribe of Mary the mother of jesus.
This papal declaration led to a royal declaration to the same effect a few years later.
I hope to have a book,or at least an essay on this subject finished by this time next year.
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
—–Original Message—–
From: Daniel Mendez de Camino
Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2010 23:28:55
To: Patty Hoyos
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] European Ancestry in
We should relax or at least calm down on the whole race thing, we dont want to make a big deal likelast time, just my two cents.
Daniel
> To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
> From: fandemma@gmail.com
> Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2010 21:48:18 -0700
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] European Ancestry in
>
> Adrian,
>
> I was not ignoring Islamic Spain. I was using the history and the results of scientific research by professional genealogist to explain a direct question of why OUR ancestors look Caucasian. Spain having been under North African control has nothing to do with us being Caucasian, especially since Spain has much more European DNA than North African. Also him having a foreign ancestor still does not answer the question why the rest of us look Caucasian. Lastly, if so many of us are Caucasian due to French and soldiers of the French foreign legion why is it that professional genealogists using science and birth records haven’t found these ancestors?
>
> Armando
Hello R.A.,
I also feel it is better to have the discussions. Also, you have stated what my point has been all along with the following –
“While I find the jewish, moor and french lines to be true in my case, it is also a reality that as we look at the percentage of the genetic makeup of our ancestors that they make up only a relatively small part of our genetic pool.”
I agree with this too while not ignoring the previous statement while using all available tools. “Just because it is small does not make it irrelevant”
I feel people, too often, focus on the exception to the rule as opposed to what should be done which is mention the rule first then mention the exceptions. There is also the other side of the coin where generalizations are made and the exceptions never mentioned. Most of the links I provided contained information about both the rule and the exceptions.
Armando
I guess that since so much of my genealogy is being researched by other cousins to find the general rule because it is easier to find relatives, I enjoy going into new territory and finding the exceptions even if they only contribute a little bit to the gene pool. The result is that I keep finding the exceptions and that little pool is slowly growing, although still a small minority.
There is a differrence when a prominent genealogist comes up with only one line and I find half a dozen lines.
——Original Message——
From: fandemma@gmail.com
Sender: research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
ReplyTo: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] European Ancestry in
Sent: Apr 22, 2010 8:55 AM
Hello R.A.,
I also feel it is better to have the discussions. Also, you have stated what my point has been all along with the following –
“While I find the jewish, moor and french lines to be true in my case, it is also a reality that as we look at the percentage of the genetic makeup of our ancestors that they make up only a relatively small part of our genetic pool.”
I agree with this too while not ignoring the previous statement while using all available tools. “Just because it is small does not make it irrelevant”
I feel people, too often, focus on the exception to the rule as opposed to what should be done which is mention the rule first then mention the exceptions. There is also the other side of the coin where generalizations are made and the exceptions never mentioned. Most of the links I provided contained information about both the rule and the exceptions.
Armando
I agree with you Daniel. To me, all this talk just sounds like a continued justification of why one’s family is whiter than someone elses.
Just like the author of this post, my Montalvo great grandparents, and the Cabral relatives of my great grandmother, left Zacatecas during the revolution for the north. Their looks seem to be the norm for what people like Armando were saying, colored eyes, brown hair and fairly light skin. In essense, probably looking more “Spanish” than my Chihuahua ancestors.
My point being, looks of a specific ethnicity aren’t always typical, so even if you came from northern Spain, you still might have olive colored skin and brown eyes. The same for those in southern Spain, your ancestor could have had Moor ancestry but have green eyes and light skin.
The point being, everyone’s geneology is different. It is how you choose to summerize it is what counts.
Armando,
I think you are mistaken when you claim I missed a point. I do not dissagree with you about there being a more distinct Spanish heritage in Zacatecas and other parts of northern Mexico than anywhere else.
A branch of my Chihuahua family, and this was during the time of the generation of my great-grand parents, were in fact very proud of being of “pure” Spanish heritage. They certainly didn’t need any scientific proof about it, and as my research shows they were right. Mostly because, unlike the area of research here, many patriarchs of Chihuahua arrived in the late colonial period.
Anyways, I think it is best to leave this topic alone for the general forum. After all, most of this thread has been one of argument and not of real help to one of the newest members of this board.
I just uploaded some vintage photo’s from the Villagran/Villagrana family collection, that I wanted to share with you all.
Alexis VIllagrana
Hi i am Gabrielle on my husbands fathers side his great great granmother was named Alvina Villagrana i am wondering if she is a sister to your felix. Do you know how many family member their is and who his parents were. thank you gabrielle
Santo Toribio Romo Gonzalez was from Santa Ana between valle de gpe and San miguel el alto. It was not a city and more like a ranch with a group of houses.
Many people feel that the people from la Chona are wrong in claiming him. But The reason that Encarnacion de diaz claims him is because one of his great grandfathers lived in that area for a time and left many Romo relatives there when he moved to the jalostotitlan/san miguel el alto area.
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
—–Original Message—–
From: alexisvillagrana@yahoo.com
Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2010 20:54:39
To:
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] The Romo’s of Encarnacion de Diaz and
Villagrana’s of Zacatecas.
Thank you so much for your reply with all the information and links for me to read and study!!!
Yes, there are a lot of myths floating around out there… There was a rumour among the Villagrana family that we were related to Poncho Villa. It was also speculated that our name started off as being Villa and as time went by, the “gran” and the “a” were later added, hence making the speculation we were related.
I quickly found out that José Doroteo Arango Arámbula was better known by his pseudonym Francisco Villa or its hypocorism Pancho Villa.
It was later on that I was able to look at The Villagrana Family Crest-Coat of Arms sign my brother had purchased and view the origins of our name.
You know how in my post I mentioned about a Romo on my mom’s side of my family being a Bishop or some spiritual person? Well a relative told me today that this Romo was a saint who has a shrine in Encarnacion de Diaz. So I just wanted to update…
I am still reading on all the information you provided but wanted to contact you back right away to thank you so very much for the wealth of information you provided me… I will definitely post back after reading all you provided!
-Alexis Villagrana
Speaking of gene pools, the gene pool of Los Altos IS so small becuase of intermarriage.
I have always been fascinated by our gene pool. I even have a cousin who all
8 great grandparents are Martin del Campo. It is a bit scary but some families refused to
marry certain family, just the central core families. I was also told once the alteno criollos
would rather marry a fellow alteno then a peninsular but of course it wasnt out of the question. I think this is why few post 1700s peninsulares are found. And to think
we all started with peninsulares but the altenos created their own identity.
Daniel
> To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
> From: mygenes2000@yahoo.com
> Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2010 12:24:19 +0000
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] European Ancestry in
>
> I am glad that we had the discussion the last time because it forced me to set aside all other research and direct my focus on this issue to find the truth and I now have more solid information about these lines. As busy as life has come at me lately, I probably would not have thrown myself only in that direction to backup what I already had. It was through that focus that I was able to gather a gold mine of information from threads there for the pulling that I had missed before.
> As to the french ancestors of the rodriguez defrias y hijar los altos, the first immigrants would have known about their french ancestor because there is so much story, drama, in his life and that of his french family. The drama continued as they made their impact in spain.
> That it was something to pass on because at first it set you apart from the other familys around you that had already intermarried so much, though his wife was of the mendoza family that was part of all the intermarriage. There is a portrait of this french ancestor hanging in a museum in Paris france.
> You can also look much further back in the family tree and look at how often eleanor of Aquitane shows up as an ancestor to the first families of jalisco through both her english children from her 2nd marriage and one of her French daughters from her 1st marriage.
> While I find the jewish, moor and french lines to be true in my case, it is also a reality that as we look at the percentage of the genetic makeup of our ancestors that they make up only a relatively small part of our genetic pool.
> Just because it is small does not make it irrelevant to me. And the small portion of the pool keeps getting larger the more I research.
> The research has also proved that some lines did not intermarry with these minorities.
> It was interesting to find that the assertations of some of our Ancestors of having no jewish blood and being from old christian families was because a Roman Catholic Pope wrote a statement making descendents of this jewish family all cristianos viejos because they had intermingled, intermarried so much with the royalty and the nobility, because they had done so much work in the catholic church, and because they came from the same tribe of Mary the mother of jesus.
> This papal declaration led to a royal declaration to the same effect a few years later.
> I hope to have a book,or at least an essay on this subject finished by this time next year.
>
> Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
>
> —–Original Message—–
> From: Daniel Mendez de Camino
> Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2010 23:28:55
> To: Patty Hoyos
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] European Ancestry in
>
>
> We should relax or at least calm down on the whole race thing, we dont want to make a big deal likelast time, just my two cents.
> Daniel
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
> > From: fandemma@gmail.com
> > Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2010 21:48:18 -0700
> > Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] European Ancestry in
> >
> > Adrian,
> >
> > I was not ignoring Islamic Spain. I was using the history and the results of scientific research by professional genealogist to explain a direct question of why OUR ancestors look Caucasian. Spain having been under North African control has nothing to do with us being Caucasian, especially since Spain has much more European DNA than North African. Also him having a foreign ancestor still does not answer the question why the rest of us look Caucasian. Lastly, if so many of us are Caucasian due to French and soldiers of the French foreign legion why is it that professional genealogists using science and birth records haven’t found these ancestors?
> >
> > Armando
> > — — — — — — — — — — — — —
> > Nuestros Ranchos Research Mailing List
> >
> > To post, send email to:
> > research(at)nuestrosranchos.org
> >
> > To change your subscription, log on to:
> > http://www.nuestrosranchos.org
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Hotmail is redefining busy with tools for the New Busy. Get more from your inbox.
> http://www.windowslive.com/campaign/thenewbusy?ocid=PID28326::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-US:WM_HMP:042010_2
The martin del campo seemed to intermarry even more than the alteno average it seems, or maybe it just seems that way. I too have a cousin who has multiple grandparents surnamed martin del campo.
My wife and I both have an ancestor martin del campo that we both descend from 7 times to make us 5 th cousins over and over. My franco lines also seem to have intermarried very often.
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
—–Original Message—–
From: Daniel Mendez de Camino
Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2010 20:19:09
To: Patty Hoyos
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] European Ancestry in
Speaking of gene pools, the gene pool of Los Altos IS so small becuase of intermarriage.
I have always been fascinated by our gene pool. I even have a cousin who all
8 great grandparents are Martin del Campo. It is a bit scary but some families refused to
marry certain family, just the central core families. I was also told once the alteno criollos
would rather marry a fellow alteno then a peninsular but of course it wasnt out of the question. I think this is why few post 1700s peninsulares are found. And to think
we all started with peninsulares but the altenos created their own identity.
Daniel
> To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
> From: mygenes2000@yahoo.com
> Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2010 12:24:19 +0000
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] European Ancestry in
>
> I am glad that we had the discussion the last time because it forced me to set aside all other research and direct my focus on this issue to find the truth and I now have more solid information about these lines. As busy as life has come at me lately, I probably would not have thrown myself only in that direction to backup what I already had. It was through that focus that I was able to gather a gold mine of information from threads there for the pulling that I had missed before.
> As to the french ancestors of the rodriguez defrias y hijar los altos, the first immigrants would have known about their french ancestor because there is so much story, drama, in his life and that of his french family. The drama continued as they made their impact in spain.
> That it was something to pass on because at first it set you apart from the other familys around you that had already intermarried so much, though his wife was of the mendoza family that was part of all the intermarriage. There is a portrait of this french ancestor hanging in a museum in Paris france.
> You can also look much further back in the family tree and look at how often eleanor of Aquitane shows up as an ancestor to the first families of jalisco through both her english children from her 2nd marriage and one of her French daughters from her 1st marriage.
> While I find the jewish, moor and french lines to be true in my case, it is also a reality that as we look at the percentage of the genetic makeup of our ancestors that they make up only a relatively small part of our genetic pool.
> Just because it is small does not make it irrelevant to me. And the small portion of the pool keeps getting larger the more I research.
> The research has also proved that some lines did not intermarry with these minorities.
> It was interesting to find that the assertations of some of our Ancestors of having no jewish blood and being from old christian families was because a Roman Catholic Pope wrote a statement making descendents of this jewish family all cristianos viejos because they had intermingled, intermarried so much with the royalty and the nobility, because they had done so much work in the catholic church, and because they came from the same tribe of Mary the mother of jesus.
> This papal declaration led to a royal declaration to the same effect a few years later.
> I hope to have a book,or at least an essay on this subject finished by this time next year.
>
> Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
>
> —–Original Message—–
> From: Daniel Mendez de Camino
> Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2010 23:28:55
> To: Patty Hoyos
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] European Ancestry in
>
>
> We should relax or at least calm down on the whole race thing, we dont want to make a big deal likelast time, just my two cents.
> Daniel
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
> > From: fandemma@gmail.com
> > Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2010 21:48:18 -0700
> > Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] European Ancestry in
> >
> > Adrian,
> >
> > I was not ignoring Islamic Spain. I was using the history and the results of scientific research by professional genealogist to explain a direct question of why OUR ancestors look Caucasian. Spain having been under North African control has nothing to do with us being Caucasian, especially since Spain has much more European DNA than North African. Also him having a foreign ancestor still does not answer the question why the rest of us look Caucasian. Lastly, if so many of us are Caucasian due to French and soldiers of the French foreign legion why is it that professional genealogists using science and birth records haven’t found these ancestors?
> >
> > Armando
> > — — — — — — — — — — — — —
> > Nuestros Ranchos Research Mailing List
> >
> > To post, send email to:
> > research(at)nuestrosranchos.org
> >
> > To change your subscription, log on to:
> > http://www.nuestrosranchos.org
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Hotmail is redefining busy with tools for the New Busy. Get more from your inbox.
> http://www.windowslive.com/campaign/thenewbusy?ocid=PID28326::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-US:WM_HMP:042010_2
Yes, also all my grandparents are cousins even multiple cousins thanks goodnessI was born in the US, ha ha. Its funny many cousins tend to look the sameand have similar traits. In our family blue eye is more common for males whilegreen is more common for women in our family. Same with hair brown formales blonde for women. This is fascinating, maybe someone knows a bit onwhy this occurs male lines and female lines. I have to disprove a common stereotype,most genealogist say female lines are usually native american or carry the blood, but in my geneaoglywhich is documented very carefully my direct maternal line (so mother’s mother’s mothers etc is espanola.) Just anotherexample on how every person is unique and so is their genealogy. I do have to agreethat usually the paternal direct line is espanol though. I descend from the Franco de la Cueva, Perez Franco, Franco de Paredes about 6 times, the martin del Campo about 16times. We should figure out who our common ancestors are,
this would be neat.
Daniel
> To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
> From: mygenes2000@yahoo.com
> Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2010 04:07:15 +0000
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] European Ancestry in
>
> The martin del campo seemed to intermarry even more than the alteno average it seems, or maybe it just seems that way. I too have a cousin who has multiple grandparents surnamed martin del campo.
> My wife and I both have an ancestor martin del campo that we both descend from 7 times to make us 5 th cousins over and over. My franco lines also seem to have intermarried very often.
> Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
>
> —–Original Message—–
> From: Daniel Mendez de Camino
> Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2010 20:19:09
> To: Patty Hoyos
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] European Ancestry in
>
>
> Speaking of gene pools, the gene pool of Los Altos IS so small becuase of intermarriage.
>
> I have always been fascinated by our gene pool. I even have a cousin who all
>
> 8 great grandparents are Martin del Campo. It is a bit scary but some families refused to
>
> marry certain family, just the central core families. I was also told once the alteno criollos
>
> would rather marry a fellow alteno then a peninsular but of course it wasnt out of the question. I think this is why few post 1700s peninsulares are found. And to think
>
> we all started with peninsulares but the altenos created their own identity.
>
>
>
> Daniel
>
>
>
>
>
>> To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
>> From: mygenes2000@yahoo.com
>> Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2010 12:24:19 +0000
>> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] European Ancestry in
>>
>> I am glad that we had the discussion the last time because it forced me to set aside all other research and direct my focus on this issue to find the truth and I now have more solid information about these lines. As busy as life has come at me lately, I probably would not have thrown myself only in that direction to backup what I already had. It was through that focus that I was able to gather a gold mine of information from threads there for the pulling that I had missed before.
>> As to the french ancestors of the rodriguez defrias y hijar los altos, the first immigrants would have known about their french ancestor because there is so much story, drama, in his life and that of his french family. The drama continued as they made their impact in spain.
>> That it was something to pass on because at first it set you apart from the other familys around you that had already intermarried so much, though his wife was of the mendoza family that was part of all the intermarriage. There is a portrait of this french ancestor hanging in a museum in Paris france.
>> You can also look much further back in the family tree and look at how often eleanor of Aquitane shows up as an ancestor to the first families of jalisco through both her english children from her 2nd marriage and one of her French daughters from her 1st marriage.
>> While I find the jewish, moor and french lines to be true in my case, it is also a reality that as we look at the percentage of the genetic makeup of our ancestors that they make up only a relatively small part of our genetic pool.
>> Just because it is small does not make it irrelevant to me. And the small portion of the pool keeps getting larger the more I research.
>> The research has also proved that some lines did not intermarry with these minorities.
>> It was interesting to find that the assertations of some of our Ancestors of having no jewish blood and being from old christian families was because a Roman Catholic Pope wrote a statement making descendents of this jewish family all cristianos viejos because they had intermingled, intermarried so much with the royalty and the nobility, because they had done so much work in the catholic church, and because they came from the same tribe of Mary the mother of jesus.
>> This papal declaration led to a royal declaration to the same effect a few years later.
>> I hope to have a book,or at least an essay on this subject finished by this time next year.
>>
>> Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
>>
>> —–Original Message—–
>> From: Daniel Mendez de Camino
>> Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2010 23:28:55
>> To: Patty Hoyos
>> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] European Ancestry in
>>
>>
>> We should relax or at least calm down on the whole race thing, we dont want to make a big deal likelast time, just my two cents.
>> Daniel
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>> To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
>>> From: fandemma@gmail.com
>>> Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2010 21:48:18 -0700
>>> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] European Ancestry in
>>>
>>> Adrian,
>>>
>>> I was not ignoring Islamic Spain. I was using the history and the results of scientific research by professional genealogist to explain a direct question of why OUR ancestors look Caucasian. Spain having been under North African control has nothing to do with us being Caucasian, especially since Spain has much more European DNA than North African. Also him having a foreign ancestor still does not answer the question why the rest of us look Caucasian. Lastly, if so many of us are Caucasian due to French and soldiers of the French foreign legion why is it that professional genealogists using science and birth records haven’t found these ancestors?
>>>
>>> Armando
>>> — — — — — — — — — — — — —
>>> Nuestros Ranchos Research Mailing List
>>>
>>> To post, send email to:
>>> research(at)nuestrosranchos.org
>>>
>>> To change your subscription, log on to:
>>> http://www.nuestrosranchos.org
>>
>> _________________________________________________________________
>> Hotmail is redefining busy with tools for the New Busy. Get more from your inbox.
>> http://www.windowslive.com/campaign/thenewbusy?ocid=PID28326::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-US:WM_HMP:042010_2
R.A. Ricci:
Oh wow- I just read your post…thank you! Earlier, one of the members here also contacted me re. this particular Saint in question who is connected to my mom’s Romo side of the family.
When I spoke with my brother again, he did tell me he remembered this shrine dedicated to a Romo who was a Saint, being located between Guadalajara and Encarnacion de Diaz. He also brought up La Chona too…
When I checked on the map, I saw how this one shrine was indeed located between these 2 cities; in Santa Ana de Guadalupe, Jalostotitlan, Jalisco, Mx! THANK YOU ALL for helping me piece the puzzle together of the mystery relative/ancestor who was a saint: SAINT TORRIBIO ROMO GONZALEZ!
Hello Alexis,
I couldn’t tell if this was evident to you. La Chona is the nickname for Encarnación de Díaz.
Armando
Armando,
My maternal grandparents were born in Encarnacion de Diaz. What is the
origination of the nickname “La Chona”?
Paul Gomez
Rancho Cucamonga, CA
—–Original Message—–
From: research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
[mailto:research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org] On Behalf Of
fandemma@gmail.com
Sent: Friday, April 23, 2010 4:56 AM
To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] The Romo’s of
Hello Alexis,
I couldn’t tell if this was evident to you. La Chona is the nickname for
Encarnación de Díaz.
Armando
