I agree with Emilie, in addition your comments are out of line and antagonistic. I do not even know who the Casillas are, sorry. We are all here to learn about family history. We’re not to accuse fellow researchers of being into fantasies about capirotada and of dallying in fantasies of ‘Jewish’ victimization as you do in the following comments:
“To
me this fantasy of wanting to be jewish stems from wanting to be
something else, the other, the victim…what an irony since the
families from los Altos came out of the families that were the
aggressors, the victimizer, we are the conquistadores and colonists.”
“There is a huge business and industry currently for dna sites testing
mexicans for jewish ancestory. There should be if there isn’t studies
to the cultural psychological fascination for the want to be jewish.”
Like I said, I don’t have a clue who the Casillas are but I can appreciate that you have done some great research and have come to your own truth. I’m here to learn about everything Genealogy at Nuestros. I am not however here to see people flame each other. Quit flaming the good folks on here. We’re all here to learn and to share information respectfully.
Yolanda
________________________________
From: “actapatio2007@yahoo.com”
To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Sat, February 27, 2010 10:36:17 AM
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Jewish evidence in Los
Hello Robert and mr Ruben Casillas (pariente)
I agree 100% I know that Ruben and I have independantly through research and dna testing that the families are Celtic and European, not of jewish ancestory. Both Ruben and I have seen also read Alberto Casillas book on the Casillas, an intensive lineage of the Casillas and the related families. Ruben has also written a book recently.
The families are not jewish, the Catholic religion is based on jewish traditions, this is not the same as being from the Hebrew/Hyskos people who came out of Egypt.
To me this fantasy of wanting to be jewish stems from wanting to be something else, the other, the victim…what an irony since the families from los Altos came out of the families that were the aggressors, the victimizer, we are the conquistadores and colonists.
I’m going to repost a comment I made above:
I’d like to see the genetic evidence and any documentation to the comment above. The evidence that I have read is to the contrary. The colonists were mostly part of the “orden de santiago” a hardcore Catholic group, hardcore enough to kill for their religion. Thus consistent with what we already knew about conquistadors and 1st colonists, they were Catholic and of mostly Celtic origins.
Genetic evidence of these names have been found to be Celtic indigenous and Celtic Frisian. King Carlos V the Hapsburg was instrumental to conquering of Mexico and his people where instrumental to inquisition. He was after all the holy Roman Emperor, king to many kings in Europe. So, there was a very acute conscious effort to make Mexico a Catholic country. Those that came from Spain, again very conscious effort to make sure they too were Catholic.
Second, we need to remember that the majority of our roots are Roman Catholic. If you look at the dna sequences from mediterranean there is a great chance of being part of the Roman empire. Everything from dna groups r1b, j1, j2, k and so forth.
Scientific Study http://dienekes.blogspot.com/2006/02/no-significant-crypto-jewish-ancestry.html
Second independant Study
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18161845?ordinalpos=1&itool=EntrezSystem2
.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_SingleItemSupl.Pubmed_Discovery_R
A&linkpos=1&log$=relatedarticles&logdbfrom=pubmed
The Only Mendoza family on www.ysearch.org that claims Mexican ancestory is actually haplogroup R1b again Celtic/Germanic. The user code is ERC6H.
Mendoza Haplogroups and probabilities are as follows according to Nordvert’s Haplogroup Predictor:
R1b-North/South 2 =>31% R1b-Leinster =>31% R1b =>7% R1b-North/South 1 =>7% R1b-S26 =>7% R1b-S28 =>7% R1b-N.Irish =>2% R1b-M222 (NW Irish) =>2% R1b-Frisian =>1% R1b-Ub =>1%
There was a 1 Mendoza family in Chile that is Middle Eastern, however this is not the family that we are talking about.
I often hear people making jewish ancestory claims, I feel compelled to log on an comment on this fantasy. Why? Because my family, the Casillas are descendant of Frisians Celtic-p invaders. From the same region that was the power center of Hapsburgs or Carlos V. At that time the Netherlands belonged to Spain and was the Catholic Power Center. The Viceroy Mendoza family and the Casillas (there are 4 so far all Celtic) family were related via back to the Hapsburg. Again no jewish ties there. The Hapsburgs sent out their administrators to Mexico, it would not make sense again that the same family that expelled the jews from Spain would send Jewish administrators to his new gold mine of a country/ Mexico.
Here is my ysearch.org entry, with over 500 years of Celtic descendants…
http://www.ysearch.org/gedcom_show.asp?uid=&viewuid=FWRJ5
ysearch user:FWRJ5
In regards to the Perez family, there are over 30 entries, 10 of them being from Mexico all from mixed ancestory.
Again, if the family was part of the first colonists in los altos, then they were most likely Catholic, Celtic or Spainish descent and part and involved of the Orden of Santiago.
It gets a little tiring to hear about these crypto jewish claims about my family, when the dna evidence, historical books, actual birth/marriage certificates and scientific studies support what my family has always known.
There is a huge business and industry currently for dna sites testing mexicans for jewish ancestory. There should be if there isn’t studies to the cultural psychological fascination for the want to be jewish. — — — — — — — — — — — — —
Nuestros Ranchos Research Mailing List
To post, send email to:
research(at)nuestrosranchos.org
To change your subscription, log on to:
http://www.nuestrosranchos.org
I agree with Emilie, in addition your comments are out of line and antagonistic. I do not even know who the Casillas are, sorry. We are all here to learn about family history. We’re not to accuse fellow researchers of being into fantasies about capirotada and of dallying in fantasies of ‘Jewish’ victimization as you do in the following comments:
“To
me this fantasy of wanting to be jewish stems from wanting to be
something else, the other, the victim…what an irony since the
families from los Altos came out of the families that were the
aggressors, the victimizer, we are the conquistadores and colonists.”
“There is a huge business and industry currently for dna sites testing
mexicans for jewish ancestory. There should be if there isn’t studies
to the cultural psychological fascination for the want to be jewish.”
Like I said, I don’t have a clue who the Casillas are but I can appreciate that you have done some great research and have come to your own truth. I’m here to learn about everything Genealogy at Nuestros. I am not however here to see people flame each other. Quit flaming the good folks on here. We’re all here to learn and to share information respectfully.
Yolanda
________________________________
From: “actapatio2007@yahoo.com”
To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Sat, February 27, 2010 10:36:17 AM
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Jewish evidence in Los
Hello Robert and mr Ruben Casillas (pariente)
I agree 100% I know that Ruben and I have independantly through research and dna testing that the families are Celtic and European, not of jewish ancestory. Both Ruben and I have seen also read Alberto Casillas book on the Casillas, an intensive lineage of the Casillas and the related families. Ruben has also written a book recently.
The families are not jewish, the Catholic religion is based on jewish traditions, this is not the same as being from the Hebrew/Hyskos people who came out of Egypt.
To me this fantasy of wanting to be jewish stems from wanting to be something else, the other, the victim…what an irony since the families from los Altos came out of the families that were the aggressors, the victimizer, we are the conquistadores and colonists.
I’m going to repost a comment I made above:
I’d like to see the genetic evidence and any documentation to the comment above. The evidence that I have read is to the contrary. The colonists were mostly part of the “orden de santiago” a hardcore Catholic group, hardcore enough to kill for their religion. Thus consistent with what we already knew about conquistadors and 1st colonists, they were Catholic and of mostly Celtic origins.
Genetic evidence of these names have been found to be Celtic indigenous and Celtic Frisian. King Carlos V the Hapsburg was instrumental to conquering of Mexico and his people where instrumental to inquisition. He was after all the holy Roman Emperor, king to many kings in Europe. So, there was a very acute conscious effort to make Mexico a Catholic country. Those that came from Spain, again very conscious effort to make sure they too were Catholic.
Second, we need to remember that the majority of our roots are Roman Catholic. If you look at the dna sequences from mediterranean there is a great chance of being part of the Roman empire. Everything from dna groups r1b, j1, j2, k and so forth.
Scientific Study http://dienekes.blogspot.com/2006/02/no-significant-crypto-jewish-ancestry.html
Second independant Study
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18161845?ordinalpos=1&itool=EntrezSystem2
.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_SingleItemSupl.Pubmed_Discovery_R
A&linkpos=1&log$=relatedarticles&logdbfrom=pubmed
The Only Mendoza family on www.ysearch.org that claims Mexican ancestory is actually haplogroup R1b again Celtic/Germanic. The user code is ERC6H.
Mendoza Haplogroups and probabilities are as follows according to Nordvert’s Haplogroup Predictor:
R1b-North/South 2 =>31% R1b-Leinster =>31% R1b =>7% R1b-North/South 1 =>7% R1b-S26 =>7% R1b-S28 =>7% R1b-N.Irish =>2% R1b-M222 (NW Irish) =>2% R1b-Frisian =>1% R1b-Ub =>1%
There was a 1 Mendoza family in Chile that is Middle Eastern, however this is not the family that we are talking about.
I often hear people making jewish ancestory claims, I feel compelled to log on an comment on this fantasy. Why? Because my family, the Casillas are descendant of Frisians Celtic-p invaders. From the same region that was the power center of Hapsburgs or Carlos V. At that time the Netherlands belonged to Spain and was the Catholic Power Center. The Viceroy Mendoza family and the Casillas (there are 4 so far all Celtic) family were related via back to the Hapsburg. Again no jewish ties there. The Hapsburgs sent out their administrators to Mexico, it would not make sense again that the same family that expelled the jews from Spain would send Jewish administrators to his new gold mine of a country/ Mexico.
Here is my ysearch.org entry, with over 500 years of Celtic descendants…
http://www.ysearch.org/gedcom_show.asp?uid=&viewuid=FWRJ5
ysearch user:FWRJ5
In regards to the Perez family, there are over 30 entries, 10 of them being from Mexico all from mixed ancestory.
Again, if the family was part of the first colonists in los altos, then they were most likely Catholic, Celtic or Spainish descent and part and involved of the Orden of Santiago.
It gets a little tiring to hear about these crypto jewish claims about my family, when the dna evidence, historical books, actual birth/marriage certificates and scientific studies support what my family has always known.
There is a huge business and industry currently for dna sites testing mexicans for jewish ancestory. There should be if there isn’t studies to the cultural psychological fascination for the want to be jewish. — — — — — — — — — — — — —
Nuestros Ranchos Research Mailing List
To post, send email to:
research(at)nuestrosranchos.org
To change your subscription, log on to:
http://www.nuestrosranchos.org
Hello Robert/Gandalf
I agree with you, especially with the markers J2 and J1 which number wise outweigh worldwide practicing jews. There are more j2 and j1 in the entire world that are non jewish.
In regards to the Southwest…
http://dienekes.blogspot.com/2006/02/no-significant-crypto-jewish-ancestry.html
Hello Yolanda
I guess I’m tired of the misdirection and misinformation being thrown around about the descendants of los Altos. Especially, the Jewish fad that is going around at this time. If at all, these markers could be mediterranean. The ironic thing is that majority of people who claim Judiac history don’t know that much about the origins of that people and their history.
The blanket statement that Altenos, especially in the cases where my family members are being mentioned as being jewish (i dont care if they were buddhist)its quite inflamatory, especially with the lack of evidence both dna and documented such as birth certificates or otherwise. I recieve emails once and while from people who have been misled over and over again into believing that they are jewish. Where are they getting these ideas? They are truly missing out on their real heritage at that point.
Well said Armando, very well said. My Alvarez lineage (valle de guadalupe) returned Haplogroup I1 ultra nordic. With hits in Eastern England and throughout Scandanavia. It is my current believe that this part of the family came to los Altos with the French, descendants of Normans who were descendants of Vikings…
We can be found on facebook under haplogroup I1
Que tal primo! Muchas de las tradiciones judias son evoluciones de traditiones del meditereanio o de los orignes de Iraq y Eypto.
Que tal primo! Muchas de las tradiciones judias son evoluciones de traditiones del meditereanio o de los orignes de Iraq y Eypto.
Hello R.A. Ricci, my family is from el Valle de Guadalupe. Is this docmented? Neither of my grandfathers r.i.p never said anything about this…please point me in the right direction…
Que bueno primo…muchos saludos! Como la vez, la gente que no saben quien son los Casillas no conocen los origen de los Altenos!
If I may, I want to first say that I agree with the statement that we all participate on this forum to learn and share ideas info. I think it is a wonderful resource and my thanks to those that allow us all to participate. I also want to say to Emilie that she is correct, we are all of us, mutts. I always enjoy your posts Emilie, you are a very wise woman.
That being said, there is nothing wrong with being proud of our ancestry, it is diverse and beautiful and DNA is a wonderful tool to help us get better aquainted (sp?) with our “ante pasados”. Myself, my DNA is called the “Balkan Marker”, which is E-V13, Along with men in Spain,I share exact matches with many Greeks and Bulgarians as well as some “primos” on this very forum. When I started my research I had no idea that one day I would have the same DNA as Lyndon B. Johnson, the Wright Brothers, George Stephanopoulos as well as the Hatfield clan from the famous “Hatfield McCoy feud, it is mind blowing.
We should be proud indeed, but not at the expense of others. Any time the old “Purity of Blood” monster rears it’s ugly head, we need to squash it.Regarding Spaniards and their (us) decendants, there is no such thing. Many of the Castillian grandees had so much Jewish blood they dare not trace their lineage too far back.
I’m sure there are Altenos of Jewish decent….and “Celtic” and Thracian Greek and Gothic and Berber and Moor, but in my humble opinion, it should be more than obvious that we are not all from one source nor is our source any better than any other. We’ve fought against discrimination for many years, we don’t need it from within our own community. Some DNA markers lead some people to believe they are somehow “whiter” ( for lack of a better term)than some of their brothers and sisters here, but they have to remember, your Y and mtDNA are only a small amount of what you really are, it is only that we are able to trace our paternal and maternal lines, but that doesn’t give us the whole story….not by a long shot. You never know who or what your genetic “Uncles and Aunts” were.
Best wishes and regards to all here….
Robert~
I don’t see where he made a statement of Spaniards being “pure”. You do seem
to want Spaniards to have even more Jewish and Moorish ancestry than what
could be the case. Spain is 67% European origin, mainly R1b. No one is
certain what the actual ethnic origins of of the non-R1b people are, they
only know where most of the people are today that share that DNA and
specific markers. Therefore as stated before, it could be what some people
call Y-DNA of Moors and Jews could actually be of other ethnic groups.
Why the comments about what the Pope said and whether or not the EU wanted
to accept Spain? I don’t see how they matter. Calling us mongrels is pretty
low.
On Sat, Feb 27, 2010 at 5:33 PM, Emilie Garcia
wrote:
>
> “Genetic evidence” and evidence you “have read” is like comparing apples
> and oranges. People used to adopt surnames as was convenient for various
> reasons especially to gain money and position.
>
>
>
> My husband, who is descended from Altenos (the Albas, Cervantes, Ruis de
> Esparza, Rubalcabas, etc.) has no illusions about his ancestry either in
> Mexico or going back to Spain.
>
>
>
> He just showed me this paragraph from one of his books about the admixture
> of cultures in Spain over the centuries: “Christian families with more
> pedigree than cash, or with a prudent respect for ability accepted them
> [Jews] in marriage. ..In this way the Spanish people, especially the upper
> classes, received a substantial infusion of Jewish blood. Ferdinand the
> Catholic and Torquemada the Inquisitor had Jews in their ancestry. Pope
> Paul IV, at war with Phillip II, called him and the Spanish ‘worthless seed
> of the Jews and Moors'”.
>
>
>
> I know that the rest of Europe looked askance at Spaniards and Portuguese
> as not being Europeans. Wasn’t there a dust-up about allowing them into the
> EU?
>
>
>
> So, it seems to me that the Spaniards are as mongrel a race as mestizos are
> now considered, and they always were. Neither Spaniards in the Old World or
> the New World were “pure” anything.
>
>
>
> Emilie
>
> Port Orchard, WA
>
> > To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
> > From: actapatio2007@yahoo.com
> > Date: Sat, 27 Feb 2010 10:26:30 -0800
> > Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Jewish evidence in Los Altos
> >
> > I’d like to see the genetic evidence and any documentation to the comment
> above. The evidence that I have read is to the contrary. The colonists were
> mostly part of the “orden de santiago” a hardcore Catholic group, hardcore
> enough to kill for their religion. Thus consistent with what we already knew
> about conquistadors and 1st colonists, they were Catholic and of mostly
> Celtic origins.
> >
> > Genetic evidence of these names have been found to be Celtic indigenous
> and Celtic Frisian. King Carlos V the Hapsburg was instrumental to
> conquering of Mexico and his people where instrumental to inquisition. He
> was after all the holy Roman Emperor, king to many kings in Europe. So,
> there was a very acute conscious effort to make Mexico a Catholic country.
> Those that came from Spain, again very conscious effort to make sure they
> too were Catholic.
> >
> > Second, we need to remember that the majority of our roots are Roman
> Catholic. If you look at the dna sequences from mediterranean there is a
> great chance of being part of the Roman empire. Everything from dna groups
> r1b, j1, j2, k and so forth.
> >
> > Scientific Study
> >
> http://dienekes.blogspot.com/2006/02/no-significant-crypto-jewish-ancestry.html
> >
> > Second independant Study
> >
> >
> http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18161845?ordinalpos=1&itool=EntrezSystem2
> >
> .PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_SingleItemSupl.Pubmed_Discovery_R
> > A&linkpos=1&log$=relatedarticles&logdbfrom=pubmed
> >
> > The Only Mendoza family on www.ysearch.org that claims Mexican ancestory
> is actually haplogroup R1b again Celtic/Germanic. The user code is ERC6H.
> >
> > Mendoza Haplogroups and probabilities are as follows according to
> Nordvert’s Haplogroup Predictor:
> > R1b-North/South 2 =>31% R1b-Leinster =>31% R1b =>7% R1b-North/South 1
> =>7% R1b-S26 =>7% R1b-S28 =>7% R1b-N.Irish =>2% R1b-M222 (NW Irish) =>2%
> R1b-Frisian =>1% R1b-Ub =>1%
> >
> > There was a 1 Mendoza family in Chile that is Middle Eastern, however
> this is not the family that we are talking about.
> >
> > I often hear people making jewish ancestory claims, I feel compelled to
> log on an comment on this fantasy. Why? Because my family, the Casillas are
> descendant of Frisians Celtic-p invaders. From the same region that was the
> power center of Hapsburgs or Carlos V. At that time the Netherlands belonged
> to Spain and was the Catholic Power Center. The Viceroy Mendoza family and
> the Casillas (there are 4 so far all Celtic) family were related via back to
> the Hapsburg. Again no jewish ties there. The Hapsburgs sent out their
> administrators to Mexico, it would not make sense again that the same family
> that expelled the jews from Spain would send Jewish administrators to his
> new gold mine of a country/ Mexico.
> >
> > Here is my ysearch.org entry, with over 500 years of Celtic
> descendants…
> > http://www.ysearch.org/gedcom_show.asp?uid=&viewuid=FWRJ5
> > ysearch user:FWRJ5
> >
> > In regards to the Perez family, there are over 30 entries, 10 of them
> being from Mexico all from mixed ancestory.
> >
> > Again, if the family was part of the first colonists in los altos, then
> they were most likely Catholic, Celtic or Spainish descent and part and
> involved of the Orden of Santiago.
> >
> > It gets a little tiring to hear about these crypto jewish claims about my
> family, when the dna evidence, historical books, actual birth/marriage
> certificates and scientific studies support what my family has always known.
> >
> > There is a huge business and industry currently for dna sites testing
> mexicans for jewish ancestory. There should be if there isn’t studies to the
> cultural psychological fascination for the want to be jewish.
> > — — — — — — — — — — — — —
> > Nuestros Ranchos Research Mailing List
> >
> > To post, send email to:
> > research(at)nuestrosranchos.org
> >
> > To change your subscription, log on to:
> > http://www.nuestrosranchos.org
>
Mongrels, Mutts…she means “mixed” and every last one of us are mixed, that is the truth. Not one ethnic group in Europe is pure, German, Spanish,English,Italian ALL are mixed. I hope that this is all a misunderstanding and we’re not kidding ourselves into thinking that one group is superior to another..that is for small minds and people who want to drag us back to the Middle ages. If anything DNA has proven that you can’t judge a book by it’s cover.
Robert~
Hi Aaron, funny thing…I’m also a decendant of a Casillas clan, not sure if it’s the one you are referring too though. My family, the Gonzalez-Casillas were one of the first Spanish families to settle the villa San Jose De Bazarte, which was originally calle “San Jose de Moctezuma. My great grandfather, Gregorio Gonzalez was married to Teodosia Casillas and he is buried underneath the altar of the small church capia in the villa itself. The Gonzalez clan were known as “Los Valientes” because of their tendency to fight, not only for their own self preservation, but in the causes of others. They were known for their abilites as horsemen, something to be proud of since most Altenos learn to ride at an ealry age. My grandfather and his brothers were all large men, six foot plus, and all blond haired and blue eyed, except my granfather who had jet black hair. The reason I’m telling you this is because , one….maybe we’re realted…two their DNA was not R1b…rather it is E-V13. How can you say “most” Altenos are R1b ? Has there even been a DNA study conducted made up of all Altenos ? I’m sorry Aaron, but these commnets are still pretty broad to me. Please forgive me if I’m wrong but it seems that relating Altenos to the R1b subclade is in order to give them a more distinguished lineage, which in essence means that the “Celtic” R1b marker is somehow “better” than others. I hope I’m mistaken and this ins’t the case.
Mongrel and mutt are derogatory terms when speaking about people. I don’t
know why you think somebody is trying to claim purity. If you had read my
other posts your response would have been different.
On Sat, Feb 27, 2010 at 9:08 PM, wrote:
> Mongrels, Mutts…she means “mixed” and every last one of us are mixed,
> that is the truth. Not one ethnic group in Europe is pure, German,
> Spanish,English,Italian ALL are mixed. I hope that this is all a
> misunderstanding and we’re not kidding ourselves into thinking that one
> group is superior to another..that is for small minds and people who want to
> drag us back to the Middle ages. If anything DNA has proven that you can’t
> judge a book by it’s cover.
> Robert~
>
Armando, If you choose to be insulted that is your choice. Maybe the words could have been chosen a bit more tactfully, but anyway you slice it…WE ARE MESTIZOS.
Not only us, but Spaniards,Poles,Germans,Italians etc.
Robert~
