Juan de Ortiz married Luisa de Esparza on Dec. 13, 1666 in Aguascalientes (no parents listed). I’ve checked all the images of “Informacion Matrimonial” for 1666 in Pilot, but there are several months missing for that year. I was able to identify two potential individuals in Aguascalientes: Luisa Esparza Lozano, b. 6 Feb 1637, daughter of Pedro Ruiz Esparza and Juana Lozano, and Luisa Esparza Lisalde, born 28 Feb 1648 daughter of Jacinto Ruiz de Esparza and Juana Lopez Lisalde. I also know that Pedro Macias Valades married a Luisa de Esparza on July 2 1684 (no parents listed), after the death of his first wife, Francisca de Quiroga. Thus I am trying to figure out which of the two Luisas correspond to the respective marriages. Any help will be appreciated.
Juan de Ortiz married Luisa de Esparza on Dec. 13, 1666 in Aguascalientes (no parents listed). I’ve checked all the images of “Informacion Matrimonial” for 1666 in Pilot, but there are several months missing for that year. I was able to identify two potential individuals in Aguascalientes: Luisa Esparza Lozano, b. 6 Feb 1637, daughter of Pedro Ruiz Esparza and Juana Lozano, and Luisa Esparza Lisalde, born 28 Feb 1648 daughter of Jacinto Ruiz de Esparza and Juana Lopez Lisalde. I also know that Pedro Macias Valades married a Luisa de Esparza on July 2 1684 (no parents listed), after the death of his first wife, Francisca de Quiroga. Thus I am trying to figure out which of the two Luisas correspond to the respective marriages. Any help will be appreciated.
Jaime
Jaime, Luisa was the daughter of Pedro Ruiz de Esparza and Juana Lozano from Aguascalientes.
Miguel Angel Gutierrez
—– Original Message —–
From: Jaime Alvarado
To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2009 6:59 PM
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Luisa Esparza Lozano or Luisa Esparza Lizalde
Juan de Ortiz married Luisa de Esparza on Dec. 13, 1666 in Aguascalientes (no parents listed). I’ve checked all the images of “Informacion Matrimonial” for 1666 in Pilot, but there are several months missing for that year. I was able to identify two potential individuals in Aguascalientes: Luisa Esparza Lozano, b. 6 Feb 1637, daughter of Pedro Ruiz Esparza and Juana Lozano, and Luisa Esparza Lisalde, born 28 Feb 1648 daughter of Jacinto Ruiz de Esparza and Juana Lopez Lisalde. I also know that Pedro Macias Valades married a Luisa de Esparza on July 2 1684 (no parents listed), after the death of his first wife, Francisca de Quiroga. Thus I am trying to figure out which of the two Luisas correspond to the respective marriages. Any help will be appreciated.
Jaime
Miggy,
I am assuming that you are referring to the Luisa married to Juan de Ortiz. If that is correct then:
Juan Ortiz married Luisa de Esparza Lozano and Pedro Macias Valades married Luisa de Esparza Lisalde.
Jaime
—– Original Message —–
From: “Miggy GUTIERREZ”
To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Friday, March 20, 2009 4:04:58 PM GMT -06:00 US/Canada Central
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Luisa Esparza Lozano or Luisa Esparza Lizalde
Jaime, Luisa was the daughter of Pedro Ruiz de Esparza and Juana Lozano from Aguascalientes.
Miguel Angel Gutierrez
—– Original Message —–
From: Jaime Alvarado
To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2009 6:59 PM
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Luisa Esparza Lozano or Luisa Esparza Lizalde
Juan de Ortiz married Luisa de Esparza on Dec. 13, 1666 in Aguascalientes (no parents listed). I’ve checked all the images of “Informacion Matrimonial” for 1666 in Pilot, but there are several months missing for that year. I was able to identify two potential individuals in Aguascalientes: Luisa Esparza Lozano, b. 6 Feb 1637, daughter of Pedro Ruiz Esparza and Juana Lozano, and Luisa Esparza Lisalde, born 28 Feb 1648 daughter of Jacinto Ruiz de Esparza and Juana Lopez Lisalde. I also know that Pedro Macias Valades married a Luisa de Esparza on July 2 1684 (no parents listed), after the death of his first wife, Francisca de Quiroga. Thus I am trying to figure out which of the two Luisas correspond to the respective marriages. Any help will be appreciated.
Jaime
It cant be Pedro’s daughter Luisa who married Juan Ortiz because she was was married to PEdro Romo de Vivar at the time. It should be the other Luisa her cousin, daughter of Jacinto Ruiz de Esparza. -Daniel
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I just wonder which Luisa married to Pedro Macías Valadés. Maybe it was a second husband. I dont think Luisa who married Pedro Romo, daughter of Pedro Ruiz de Esparza married a second time. Its possible this Pedro Macias who married a Luisa was the same Luisa the daughter of Jacinto. But there is no documentation so its hard to tell, We DO know it has to be these Luisas. -Daniel
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Pedro’s daughter Luisa Esparza was known as Ma. Luisa Ángeles but she used de los Reyes as her surname mostly. The other Luisa, Jacinto’s daughter appears as Juana Luisa Ruiz de Esparza on her daughter Margarita de Macías y Valadés’ baptism. Not sure where she gets Juana? Possibly her mother, kinda hard since both sets of Luisas have Juanas as her mother. Juana López de Elizalde and Juana Ruiz de Lozano. Just thouhgt this might help with something. -Daniel
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Hi, again, I looked in my database and possibly confirm that PEdro Macías was son of Tomás Macías and MAría López de Elizalde. I had a Pedro who married “Juana” de Esparza, since this other Pedro we speak of married a Luisa Esparza, and their daughters baptism she appears as Juana Luisa Esparza, I think its the same women, because of the time period is symmetrical. -Daniel
I have a question indirectly related:
Are Elizalde and Lizalde interchangeable?
Are Elizondo and Lizondo interchangeable?
—
Best regards,
Stuart mailto:stuartarms@gmail.com
The Luisa Ruiz de Esparza I have married to Juan Ortiz, was born Feb 6, 1637 in Aguascalientes. Married Dec 13, 1666. Her Parents were Pedro Ruiz de Esparza and Juana Lozano. Other brothers she had were Nicolas, Maria, Nicolasa, Matiana, Juan, Beatriz
—– Original Message —–
From: Jaime R. Alvarado
To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Friday, March 20, 2009 3:21 PM
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Luisa Esparza Lozano or Luisa Esparza Lizalde
Miggy,
I am assuming that you are referring to the Luisa married to Juan de Ortiz. If that is correct then:
Juan Ortiz married Luisa de Esparza Lozano and Pedro Macias Valades married Luisa de Esparza Lisalde.
Jaime
—– Original Message —–
From: “Miggy GUTIERREZ” <miggychino@msn.com>
To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Friday, March 20, 2009 4:04:58 PM GMT -06:00 US/Canada Central
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Luisa Esparza Lozano or Luisa Esparza Lizalde
Jaime, Luisa was the daughter of Pedro Ruiz de Esparza and Juana Lozano from Aguascalientes.
Miguel Angel Gutierrez
—– Original Message —–
From: Jaime Alvarado<mailto:alvaradj@comcast.net>
To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org<mailto:research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org<mailto:research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org>
Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2009 6:59 PM
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Luisa Esparza Lozano or Luisa Esparza Lizalde
Juan de Ortiz married Luisa de Esparza on Dec. 13, 1666 in Aguascalientes (no parents listed). I’ve checked all the images of “Informacion Matrimonial” for 1666 in Pilot, but there are several months missing for that year. I was able to identify two potential individuals in Aguascalientes: Luisa Esparza Lozano, b. 6 Feb 1637, daughter of Pedro Ruiz Esparza and Juana Lozano, and Luisa Esparza Lisalde, born 28 Feb 1648 daughter of Jacinto Ruiz de Esparza and Juana Lopez Lisalde. I also know that Pedro Macias Valades married a Luisa de Esparza on July 2 1684 (no parents listed), after the death of his first wife, Francisca de Quiroga. Thus I am trying to figure out which of the two Luisas correspond to the respective marriages. Any help will be appreciated.
Jaime
Big time, the original López de Elizalde but with time it was shorten to Elizalde but others did keep the entire thing, varioations in spelling came about Lisalde, Elisalde, Lisardi, Lizardi, list goes on….-Daniel
> Date: Sat, 21 Mar 2009 09:44:10 -0600
> From: stuartarms@gmail.com
> To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Luisa Esparza Lozano or Luisa Esparza Lizalde
>
> I have a question indirectly related:
> Are Elizalde and Lizalde interchangeable?
> Are Elizondo and Lizondo interchangeable?
>
> —
> Best regards,
> Stuart mailto:stuartarms@gmail.com
>
Stuart,
Regarding Elizalde, I have found the surname as Lisaldi, Lisalde, Lisardi (with s or z) for the same individual in different records (christening, marriage, burial, etc). Like most basque surnames Elizalde has a simple meaning: next to the church.
There are several websites that deal with origins, variations and meaning of basque surnames. One in spanish,english, french or basque is:
http://www.geocities.com/apellidos_vascos/apellidos.html
For Elizalde they give: Delissalde, Elisalde, Elissalt, Elizade, Lizalde, all equivalent.
There is also a book on basque surnames, available in CD: http://www.euskalnet.net/lizardicb/apellidos.htm
A site that I recommend to everyone in Nuestros Ranchos is: http://apellido.enfemenino.com/w/apellidos/apellido-elizalde.html. Here you can obtain the current distribution and frequency of surnames in Spain. You can identify that certain variations of a surname are highly localized. Interestingly, certain surnames very frequent in Los Altos and neighboring areas, are extremely rare today in Spain (e.g, Ruiz de Esparza or Esparza). This maybe analogous to a ‘founder-effect’ in an evolutionary context, where ‘by chance’ rare ‘alleles=surnames’ in the original population, arrived to a new area where they experienced a rapid expansion after colonization. Its a lot of fun.
To summarize, variations of Elizalde are interchangeable. I recall that recently there was some comments on this same issue. Regarding Elizondo, my guess is that the same would apply, but I am sure that others in the group can give us examples of the variations of that surname.
Jaime
—– Original Message —–
From: “Stuart Armstrong”
To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Saturday, March 21, 2009 10:44:10 AM GMT -06:00 US/Canada Central
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Luisa Esparza Lozano or Luisa Esparza Lizalde
I have a question indirectly related:
Are Elizalde and Lizalde interchangeable?
Are Elizondo and Lizondo interchangeable?
—
Best regards,
Stuart mailto:stuartarms@gmail.com
What a weekend! I gathered lots of information for differents sources (thanks to everyone), and was able to conclude the following regarding the two Luisas.
Jacinto Ruiz de Esparza and Juana Lopez de Lizalde were parents of Luisa de Esparza Lizalde, b. 28 Feb 1648, Aguascalientes. Luisa’s godfather was Francisco Gomez. Luisa married Pedro Macias Valades on July 2, 1684. The Godfather at the wedding was again Francisco Gomez togehter with Margarita Gomez. Luisa and Pedro had the following children: Isabel b. 1685, Margarita b 13 Oct 1686, Josepha b. 1688, Pedro b.1689 y Maria b. 1691. Margarita Macias married Manuel Delgado Lopez Lizalde, son of Luis Delgado and Theresa Lopez Lisalde, on April 17, 1706 (Informacion Matrimonial April 7th). What is interesting, is that in this document, the parents of the bride are listed as: Pedro Macias Valades and Luisa Gomez! The age of the bride (19 years old) corresponds with Margarita’s birthdate, and as far as I can tell, this is the same Margarita born to Pedro MV and Luisa de Esparza.
The question: What is the relationship of Francisco Gomez to the Ruiz Esparza & Lopez Lizaldi families. Any clues?
This confirms (Thanks Miggi) that Luisa de Esparza Lozano b. 6 Feb 1637, daughter of Pedro (Ruiz) de Esparza and Juana Lozano, is indeed the wife of Juan Ortiz, whom she married on 13 Dec 1666, in Aguascalientes. This information will be particularly useful for the descendants of the Reyes-Medina family lines.
Jaime Alvarado
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Jaime,
I believe that Luisa Ruiz de Esparza, the daughter of Jacinto Ruiz de Esparza and Juana López de Elizalde, married Baltazar Caldera in Aguascalientes on 21 Feb 1667. She would have been 19 years old. Her marriage record reads as follows:
Al margen “Baltasar Caldera
con Luissa ruis
de esparsa casados
y velados”
“En beinte y un dias del mes de febrero
año de mill y seiscientos y sesenta y siete
abiendo presedido todo lo que dispone el
Santo consilio de trento y los sacros
canones in facie ecclesie casse por palabras
de presente que hisieron verdadero ma=
trimonio y velle a Baltasar Caldera
con Luissa ruis de esparsa españoles
fueron testigos Joan Bauptista Sanches
Miguel Cordero y Gaspar Serrano
y lo firme Geronimo Lopes del Carpio”
Luisa and Baltazar had one child, María Caldera Ruiz de Esparza, baptized in Aguascalientes 13 Oct 1668. Luisa died giving birth to her first child and was buried in Aguascalientes on 2 Sep 1668. Her burial record reads as follows:
Al margen: “Septe
Luisa Ruis de
esparsa Spla mugr
q’ fue de Bal=
tasar Caldera”
En dos dias del mes de septiembre de mil y seiscientos y sesenta y ocho años
en esta Villa de Aguascalientes fallecio Luisa Ruis de esparsa Muger q’
fue de Baltasar Caldera Espl recivio los Stos Sacramtos. del Viatico, y Extrema
Unccion No hiso testamento por no tener bienes y la enterre en esta Yglesia Parro=
chial dicho dia Ut Supra y lo firme Br. Nicolas de Echerreaga”
Again, no mention of her parents in her burial record. I have not found any other records for María Caldera, so I believe she probably died young.
Luisa was baptized 28 Feb 1648 in Aguascalientes. Her godfather Francisco Gómez was the husband of her older sister Margarita. Francisco and Margarita wed in Aguascalientes on 3 Jun 1647.
I don’t think this is the Luisa who married Pedro Macias Valades. She would have been 36 years old in 1684. Pedro and Luisa had at least five children:
Isabel b. 1685
Margarita b. 1686
Josepha b. 1688
Pedro b. 1689
María b. 1691
Luisa would have been 43 years old when María was born in 1691. I believe the Luisa that married Pedro Macías Valadez was indeed Luisa Gómez, alias Luisa Ruiz de Esparza. Was she a daughter of Francisco Gómez and Margarita Ruiz de Esparza, thus the alias Ruiz de Esparza? The surnames Gómez and Ruiz de Esparza were closely related at that point in time. I’ll do some more checking.
To be continued…
Bill Figueroa
Billl,
One thing is for sure, we will never get bored trying to ‘reconstruct’ our families histories. I can see your point about the age Luisa had she married Pedro Macias Valades, yet in my family tree, I have a several great-great-etc-grandmothers that married ‘late’, either in their first or second marriage, and were still able to produce manyt children (thank God, otherwise I would not be here!). Going back to Luisa de Esparza Lisalde. I am including the transcription of her christening:
(Al Margen) Luissa Espa ñ ola.
En veinte y ocho de Febrero de mill y seiscientos y quarenta y ocho a ñ os en esta parroqia baptise y chatechisse a una ni ñ a a la qual pusse por n(ombr)e Luisa Hija de Jasinto de Esparza y de Juana de Lisalde sacola de pila Franco Gomez dixele la obligacion del parentesco. (Rubrica) Luys de Zepeda
You are right. Francisco Gomez, who held her during the ceremony, was the husband of her older sister Margarita, having married the year before. However, what I find interesting is that both Francisco and Margarta were the Godparents in the Pedro Masias Valades and Luisa de Esparza wedding. Here is the transcription:
(Al Margen) (Pedro Ma)sias con (Luisa) de Esparsa (casa)dos y velados
En la Villa de Aguascalientes en dos dias del mes de Junio año de mill seiscientos y ochenta y quatro case y vele in facie clezie a Pedro Macias Valades viudo de Franca. de Quiroga ia difunta, con Luisa de Esparsa vesina de esta dicha Villa, aviendo precedido informacion bastante de su livertad y las amonestaciones que dispone el Sto. Concilio leidas en tres dias festibos inter missarum solemnia, la primera dia de Junio, la segunda domingo beinte i uno de Junio la tersera dia de los Apostoles S. Pedro y S. Pablo, de las quales no resulto impedimento fueron testigos al expresar sus voluntades Diego Gonzales de la Serda, Francisco Muños de Naba y los Padrinos que lo fueron Franco. Gomes y Margarita Gomes y lo firme.
(Rubrica) Don Baltassar Fernando Altami(ra)no de Costilla
To the suggestion that this Luisa could be the daughter of Francisco and Margarita Gomez, I have a question. Is it at all possible for the parents to be the Godparents?
Finally, I tried to find the informacion matrimonial for Baltassar Caldera and Luisa Ruiz de Esparza, without success.
I’ll keep digging
Jaime Alvarado
Jaime,
The “padrinos” at the wedding of Pedro Macías Valadez and Luisa Gómez (or Ruiz de Esparza) were NOT Francisco Gómez and Margarita Ruiz de Esparza. Francisco Gómez was buried in Aguascalientes 2 Oct 1655. His wife was alive in 1683 and probably in 1684. Francisco burial record reads as follows:
Al margen: “Franco. Gomes
Marido de Marga
rita de Sparsa
testo y no dexo
obras pias”
“En dos de octubre año de mil y seiscientos y sinqta. y cinco
enterre en la Parrochial de esta Villa a Franco. Gomes
spañol natural de Sevilla marido q’ fue
de Margarita de Sparsa Recibio los SStos Sa
cramtos. y testo No dexo obras pias y lo firme
D. Bme. de Soto y Carvajal”
I feel sorry for Doña Margarita. She was pregnant when her husband died. Their last child Baltazar Gómez was baptized 12 Feb 1656 in Aguascalientes.
The “padrinos” at the wedding of Pedro Macías Valadez and Luisa Gómez (or Ruiz de Esparza) were Francisco Gómez and Margarita Gómez, children of Francisco Gómez and Margarita Ruiz de Esparza and possibly siblings or cousins of the bride. Incidentally, can you send me as attachments the pages of Informaciones Matrimoniales where Luisa appears as Luisa Gómez? The age of the groom and bride are usually given in their declarations.
I could not find the Informacion Matrimonial for Baltazar Caldera and Luisa Ruiz de Esparza either.
Bill Figueroa
