Bill,
Could there be a Pedro Macias Valadez married to a Luisa de Esparza, different from a Pedro Macias Valadez married to Luisa Gomez (Ruiz de Esparza)? With so many people christened with same name (got another two Luisas Esparza that died earlier), and the same families often intermarrying, I wonder about that possibility. That is a headache with my maternal line from Nuevo Leon, where Garcia and de la Garza families intermarried for generations in Villa de Garcia. The LDS site is swamped with unverified submissions ‘based on matches taken at face value without reading the original documents. The number of Gertrudis de la Garza is oustanding! I got about six of as direct ancestors (all related), with my great grandfather having two ‘abuelas’ Gertrudis Garza. These Gertrudis are oftern interchanged, creating huge discrepancies among family trees.
Regarding Francisco Gomez, I will send you the JPG of the wedding of Pedro and Luisa where it reads without doubt “fueron los padrinos Franco Gomez and Margarita Gomez.” Given the information you have about Franco, they are likely to be his children.
I will also send you the ‘informacion matrimonial’ of the wedding of Margarita Macias where Luisa Gomez appears as the mother of the bride.
Thanks
Jaime Alvarado
—– Original Message —–
From: “Bill Figueroa”
To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Sunday, March 22, 2009 8:20:42 PM GMT -06:00 US/Canada Central
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Luisa Esparza Lozano or Luisa Esparza Lizalde
Jaime,
The “padrinos” at the wedding of Pedro Macías Valadez and Luisa Gómez (or Ruiz de Esparza) were NOT Francisco Gómez and Margarita Ruiz de Esparza. Francisco Gómez was buried in Aguascalientes 2 Oct 1655. His wife was alive in 1683 and probably in 1684. Francisco burial record reads as follows:
Al margen: “Franco. Gomes
Marido de Marga
rita de Sparsa
testo y no dexo
obras pias”
“En dos de octubre año de mil y seiscientos y sinqta. y cinco
enterre en la Parrochial de esta Villa a Franco. Gomes
spañol natural de Sevilla marido q’ fue
de Margarita de Sparsa Recibio los SStos Sa
cramtos. y testo No dexo obras pias y lo firme
D. Bme. de Soto y Carvajal”
I feel sorry for Doña Margarita. She was pregnant when her husband died. Their last child Baltazar Gómez was baptized 12 Feb 1656 in Aguascalientes.
The “padrinos” at the wedding of Pedro Macías Valadez and Luisa Gómez (or Ruiz de Esparza) were Francisco Gómez and Margarita Gómez, children of Francisco Gómez and Margarita Ruiz de Esparza and possibly siblings or cousins of the bride. Incidentally, can you send me as attachments the pages of Informaciones Matrimoniales where Luisa appears as Luisa Gómez? The age of the groom and bride are usually given in their declarations.
I could not find the Informacion Matrimonial for Baltazar Caldera and Luisa Ruiz de Esparza either.
Bill Figueroa
Jaime,
There was a Pedro Macías Valadez who married a Juana de Esparza 16 Sep 1678 in Aguascalientes. I don’t know anything about this Juana de Esparza. Pedro was the son of Thomas Macías Valadez and María de Alvarado y López de Elizalde. You may want to check his Información Matrimonial.
I don’t have another Luisa Gómez in my database, but I do have a Luisa Ruiz de Esparza who married Gerónimo Montañez on 22 Feb 1689, a Juana Luisa Ruiz de Esparza who married Joseph de Chávez on 8 Dec 1696 and a Luisa Ruiz de Esparza who married Juan Ortiz on 13 Dec 1666 (you already checked this one) all of them in Aguascalientes. I have a few more but they’re from different generations. I did a quick search for the Información Matrimonial of Pedro Macías Valadez and Luisa Gómez (or Ruiz de Esparza) but could not find it. As you know, Pedro Macías Valadez had been married to Francisca de Espitia (aka Francisca de Quiroga) with whom he had two children. He then had five with Luisa Gómez (or Ruiz de Esparza). Pedro died ca. 1700.
To be continued…
Bill Figueroa
Hi Bill, Its Daniel, i have one question, Im very confused about all the Luisa you mention? Correct me, Franco. Gómez and Margarita had Bálthazar, Franco. II, Luisa II and Margarita II? Did this Luisa married Pedro Macías Valadés?
I found this who is this Luisa’s parentts?
LUISA DE ESPARZA
Pedigree
Female
Family
Event(s):
Birth:
Christening:
Death:
Burial:
Marriages:
Spouse:
PEDRO MACIAS VALADEZ
Family
Marriage:
02 JUL 1684
Aguascalientes, Aguascalientes, Mexico
-Daniel Méndez del Camino
_________________________________________________________________
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Daniel,
The Luisa Esparza (or Gómez) that has not been identified is the one who married Pedro Macías Valadez in 1684. In her marriage record she is Luisa Esparza but her daughter Margarita Macías referred to her as Luisa Gómez in her marriage declaration.
Francisco Gómez, a native of Seville who settled in Nueva Galicia in the early or mid-1600s, married Margarita Ruiz de Esparza in 1647. I have identified four of their children:
1. Francisco, their “primogénito” was born in 1648. Probably died infant.
2. Margarita, birth date unknown, could be their second child. She married Juan Ruiz de Escamilla.
3. Francisco II, born in 1652, first married María González de Huerta and when she died he married María de Altuna y Contreras.
4. Baltazar, their last child, was born in 1656. His father died four months before he was born. I don’t know if he survived but have found no additional information about him.
Francisco Gómez died in 1655. Margarita Ruiz de Esparza did not remarry but was still alive in 1683.
The Luisa Gómez (or Esparza) that married Pedro Macías Valadez in 1684 could be a legitimate daughter of this couple. I have not found her baptismal certificate or any other document that would identify her as such, but still have to check for confirmation records, burial records, marriage information, etc.
The “padrinos” at their wedding were Francisco Gómez and Margarita Gómez, numbers 1 and 2 above. They could be her siblings or cousins. That, in a nutshell, is what we are trying to determine.
Bill Figueroa
—– Original Message —–
From: “Daniel Méndez del Camino”
To: “Patty Hoyos”
Sent: Monday, March 23, 2009 4:04 AM
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Luisa Esparza Lozano or Luisa Esparza Lizalde
Hi Bill, Its Daniel, i have one question, Im very confused about all the Luisa you mention? Correct me, Franco. Gómez and Margarita had Bálthazar, Franco. II, Luisa II and Margarita II? Did this Luisa married Pedro Macías Valadés?
Daniel
Hola Jaime, Bill y los otros Esparzas!
My sister in law and I are searching for the Esparza family (Martin Ruiz De
Esparza) from Aguas/Zacatecas area that migrated to the North. Thus far we
know that Domingo in Saltillo is the only one moving to the north area —
Texas, Monterrey, New Mexico, CA — When we were searching we could not
find many Esparzas north of Jalisco, Zacazatecas. …the Generations of Lope
& Ana Gabay. Also, Gregorio has moved north. In 1750, when the real
migration began, we find other Esparzas in Lampazos — one Manuel was there,
but what happened to the others? Do your Esparza come North?
Thanks, Phyls Esparza
Bill,
I found the ‘informacion matrimonial’ of Pedro Macias Valades (son of Tomas MV and Maria de Alvarado Lopez de Elizalde) and Juana de Esparza (Sept 1678). The first page is difficult to read, but while Pedro’s info is given, there none for the parents of Juana. In addition, Pedro signs his declaration, but hers is signed in her behalf and it is ‘obscure’ about details. The witnesses declare that Pedro and Juana ‘fueron criados juntos’. I wonder if they lived in the same household, and whether she was an illegitimate child of a relative. In a separate e-mail, I will send you the jpg files.
Almost forgot, while searching in that same year, I found the informacion matrimonial of Pedro Macias Valades (son of Pedro Macias Valades and Josepha Gutierrez) when she married to Francisca Ruis de Quiroga (daughter of Bartholome the Espitia and Juana Gonzalez). Do you want a copy?
Jaime
Jaime,
Yes, I would like scans of the ‘Información Matrimonial’ of Pedro Macías Valadez and Juana de Esparza (Sept 1678) and Pedro Macías Valadez and Francisca Ruiz de Quiroga. I want to read these documents and add some notes to my database. I find searching for these documents very time consuming because of the lack of indexing. Incidentally, I found the burial of Pedro Macías Valadez (the one who married Luisa Gómez aka Luisa de Esparza in 1684). He was buried 14 Jul 1737 in Aguascalientes. His wife is listed as Luissa de Esparsa. You may want to add that bit of information to your family tree.
Have you ever tried to find anyone in the Confirmation records? The parents and godparents of kids being confirmed are always listed. Not other useful information. I’ve found the confirmation of several of my ancestors and they were listed correctly. Do you think it would be worthwhile searching for Luisa Gómez aka Luisa de Esparza between 1650-1680? Based on the information we’ve found so far, I keep thinking that Luisa may have been the daughter of Francisco Gómez and Margarita Ruiz de Esparza. Women usually went by the mother’s surname. Just a thought.
Bill
Bill,
Thanks for the burial info of Pedro MV. Regading confirmation records, I have tried to check it before, and have found certain children whose christenings I could not find. Just yesterday I stumbled into some that were out of place, among baptism records. I scanned those pages that had names I could recognize in my tree, saved the jpg files, and can I will check them out later. One record that came up, was a Mathias Macias Valades, son of Joseph Macias Valades and Catalina de la Vega. Prior to this, I only had Juan who married Juana Dominguez for that couple. I would not be surprised that you already have it with a bunch of other siblings.
Jaime
PS I will send you jpg files in a few minutes. Did you received the ones I sent you earlier today?
—– Original Message —–
From: “Bill Figueroa”
To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Monday, March 23, 2009 8:14:20 PM GMT -06:00 US/Canada Central
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Luisa Esparza Lozano or Luisa Esparza Lizalde
Jaime,
Yes, I would like scans of the ‘Información Matrimonial’ of Pedro Macías Valadez and Juana de Esparza (Sept 1678) and Pedro Macías Valadez and Francisca Ruiz de Quiroga. I want to read these documents and add some notes to my database. I find searching for these documents very time consuming because of the lack of indexing. Incidentally, I found the burial of Pedro Macías Valadez (the one who married Luisa Gómez aka Luisa de Esparza in 1684). He was buried 14 Jul 1737 in Aguascalientes. His wife is listed as Luissa de Esparsa. You may want to add that bit of information to your family tree.
Have you ever tried to find anyone in the Confirmation records? The parents and godparents of kids being confirmed are always listed. Not other useful information. I’ve found the confirmation of several of my ancestors and they were listed correctly. Do you think it would be worthwhile searching for Luisa Gómez aka Luisa de Esparza between 1650-1680? Based on the information we’ve found so far, I keep thinking that Luisa may have been the daughter of Francisco Gómez and Margarita Ruiz de Esparza. Women usually went by the mother’s surname. Just a thought.
Bill
Hola Phyls,
Most early settlers of Aguascalientes stayed close to home in the 1600s, but by the 1700s their descendants moved in all directions. One thing to consider is that not only the ones that carry the surname are Esparzas. Some are much more difficult to detect, like myself for example. My great-grandmother Josefa Frias Esparza was born in Rincon de Romos in 1848. Her mother Refugio Ruiz de Esparza died when Josefa was born, so my 2-great grandfather (tatarabuelo) Antonio Frías moved the family to Tepic, Nayarit, which at that time was ‘Territorio Militar’ and previously had been ‘Séptimo Cantón de Jalisco’ and part of Nueva Galicia. Nayarit became a state in 1914 or thereabouts. Antonio Frías had a thriving transportation business in Tepic, moving goods from ships arriving at the port of San Blas, to the city of Guadalajara. He also had mining interests in other areas. In 1870 Josepha Frías Esparza married my great-grandfather Wilhelm L. Strecker, a German-American engineer from Pennsylvania who ended up in Mexico after a devastating shipwreck off the coast of Mazatlan. About 10 years later my great-grandfather secured a contract with the government of Guatemala to participate in the construction of the railroads in that country, and moved his family to Guatemala. My grandfather Guillermo Strecker Frías was born there in 1879. His mother, Josefa Frias Esparza, died in Guatemala City in 1921.
My Ruiz de Esparza connection is as follows:
• 8th great-grandparents: Lope Ruiz de Esparza & Anna Francisca Gabai de Moctezuma
• 7th great-grandparents: Bernardo Ruiz-de-Esparza & Catalina Lozano de Frías
• 6th great-grandparents: Christobal Ruiz de Esparza & Antonia de Alvarado y Lopez de Elizalde
• 5th great-grandparents: Francisco Ruiz-de-Esparza & Josepha de Iñiguez y Ulloa
• 4th great-grandparents: Vicente Ruiz-de-Esparza & Rafaela Trillo y Delgado
• 3rd great-grandparents: Francisco Ruiz-de-Esparza & María Gertrudis Escobedo y Escalera
• 2nd great-grandparents: José Antonio Frías & Refugio Ruiz-de-Esparza
• My great-grandparents : Wilhelm L. Strecker & Josepha Frías Ruiz-de-Esparza
There must be thousands of cases like mine throughout the world. I was born and raise in Guatemala but now live in the USA and have children and grandchildren born in this country. Because I worked in the oil industry all my life, I had the opportunity to live in Mexico and to visit the country quite often, working on seismic exploration and drilling projects for Pemex. Many other times I went there for pleasure, to visit friends and relatives, and more recently for genealogical research. I love Mexico.
Going back to Lope Ruiz de Esparza and Francisca Gabai, I know that all their children were born and lived in Aguascalientes, Zacatecas and Jalisco, but some of their descendants moved to other areas of Mexico, including Texas, Alta California, Nuevo Mexico, Arizona, Nevada and other territories explored and settled by Spain north of the Rio Grande. To find out who they are, you have to start following the threat of ancestors by checking church and civil records. Not an easy task.
Take care, Phyls.
Bill Figueroa
Phyls,
I never seem to get all the typos before I send my emails. I didn’t mean “follow the threat of their ancestors” but rather “follow de THREAD to their ancestors”. A slip of the finger. Sorry!!
Bill Figueroa
Jaime,
I did receive all the jpg files you sent me, thank you very much. I do NOT
have Mathias Macias Valadez, son of Joseph Macías Valadez and Catalina de la
Vega, in my records, but I do have 1) Thomas who married María de Anda
Miramontes 2 Feb 1693, 2) Josepha who married Antonio de Cuellar 29 Nov 1681
and 3) Ursula who married Antonio de Acosta 22 Aug 1677. Do you have any
other data for Mathias or any other children? Did he survive adolescence,
marry and had children?
Bill
I do not have any additional information on Mathias Macias Valades other than that confimation record I mentioned. I will send you the JPG.
Jaime
Confirmaciones are excellent records; where else are you going to piece together a family quickly and know if they are still living in the vicinity. They are not only a good indicator of a child arriving to the age of confirmation but when the family moved. If the child does not get confirmed and others do, then what happened; did the child die? What if other children did not get confirmed did the family move away, or did they all die? They could have all died, but more than likely they moved away. If there is a gap in the confirmation of the children and a child is missed then chances are that you will find the child in the defunciones.
Yo tengo registrada a Luisa Ruiz de Esparza, la mujer de Pedro Macías Valadez como hija de Salvador Ruiz de Esparza y Francisca Vallín. Lo encontré en su acta de defunción, y ahí menciona que es hija de ellos.
Saludos.
Jorge Luis Ramírez Gómez.
_________________________________________________________________
¿Conoces todas las novedades de Messenger?
www.messengernews.com.mx
Hola, Jorge puede decirme que es la fecha de la defunción de Luisa? Gracias
-Daniel M. Camino
_________________________________________________________________
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