Hi Welester,
The first mayor (kind of like a vice mayor) of Santiago and I had long
conversations regarding his heritage. Although he looks Mexican, his grandfather
was one of those French/Austrian soldiers. Apparently, his grandfather was
very young when he was sent to Mexico to fight. He was taken under the wing
of a Mexican family, and so when it was time to return, his grandfather was
hidden, and taken in by the same Mexican family, whereby later, he assumed this
family’s name. I have no reason to dispute his story..

But it gives you yet another thing to think about regarding the actual
tracing of French descendents throughout Mexico…it might be very difficult to
prove it through family surnames.

You are right about the estimated numbers, and most of them coming through
Veracruz – another port of entry was Guerrero and Oaxaca….and as mentioned,
there was the underground railroad…further, many of the Africans were taken
into Mexico City – where they were preferred over the indigenous populations
as servants (it was prestigious to have paid for servants). Additionally,
many states such as Zacatecas and Michoacan actually had more African presence
than Spanish presence in the 1500 and 1600’s. The tracing of African
heritage was stopped after the Mexican Independence – no doubt due to the fact that
Mexico’s 2nd president, Vicente Guerrero was a mulatto. Indeed, slavery was
abolished at this time. But as you say, sometimes the blood is
undeniable…and can be seen throughout all of Mexico….just think…even Menguin Pepin
managed to be “acceptable” …. even though if you think about it, it was yet
another form of denigrating the African inheritance.

There was a conscious movement occurring throughout all of Latin America to
“whiten” their blood. As they were looking at the progressive and prosperous
United States throughout the industrial revolution, they wondered whether in
part, this was attributable to the fact that their countries had large
populations of people of color. Consequently, during the 1800’s, many Latin
American countries offered Europeans free land to settle in their countries. I am
not sure if Mexico was involved in this attractive proposal, but I am sure
that such countries such as Venezuela and Colombia,others were….

Esperanza
Chicagoland area

Hi Welester,
The first mayor (kind of like a vice mayor) of Santiago and I had long
conversations regarding his heritage. Although he looks Mexican, his grandfather
was one of those French/Austrian soldiers. Apparently, his grandfather was
very young when he was sent to Mexico to fight. He was taken under the wing
of a Mexican family, and so when it was time to return, his grandfather was
hidden, and taken in by the same Mexican family, whereby later, he assumed this
family’s name. I have no reason to dispute his story..

But it gives you yet another thing to think about regarding the actual
tracing of French descendents throughout Mexico…it might be very difficult to
prove it through family surnames.

You are right about the estimated numbers, and most of them coming through
Veracruz – another port of entry was Guerrero and Oaxaca….and as mentioned,
there was the underground railroad…further, many of the Africans were taken
into Mexico City – where they were preferred over the indigenous populations
as servants (it was prestigious to have paid for servants). Additionally,
many states such as Zacatecas and Michoacan actually had more African presence
than Spanish presence in the 1500 and 1600’s. The tracing of African
heritage was stopped after the Mexican Independence – no doubt due to the fact that
Mexico’s 2nd president, Vicente Guerrero was a mulatto. Indeed, slavery was
abolished at this time. But as you say, sometimes the blood is
undeniable…and can be seen throughout all of Mexico….just think…even Menguin Pepin
managed to be “acceptable” …. even though if you think about it, it was yet
another form of denigrating the African inheritance.

There was a conscious movement occurring throughout all of Latin America to
“whiten” their blood. As they were looking at the progressive and prosperous
United States throughout the industrial revolution, they wondered whether in
part, this was attributable to the fact that their countries had large
populations of people of color. Consequently, during the 1800’s, many Latin
American countries offered Europeans free land to settle in their countries. I am
not sure if Mexico was involved in this attractive proposal, but I am sure
that such countries such as Venezuela and Colombia,others were….

Esperanza
Chicagoland area

Joseph,

Ay….me da verguenza…..while I do know a little of something, I don’t
feel I am an authority, such as the Curriculum Director from the Mexican Fine
Arts Museum in Chicago. That is why I have asked her to accompany me to make the
joint presentation, using materials they developed for educators. Let me
ask her permission….and we can go from there….okay?

Contact me personally using my email….there may be yet another way to
share information without necessarily recording me…

Esperanza

Joseph,

Ay….me da verguenza…..while I do know a little of something, I don’t
feel I am an authority, such as the Curriculum Director from the Mexican Fine
Arts Museum in Chicago. That is why I have asked her to accompany me to make the
joint presentation, using materials they developed for educators. Let me
ask her permission….and we can go from there….okay?

Contact me personally using my email….there may be yet another way to
share information without necessarily recording me…

Esperanza

I’ve entered in the albums section a painting I did that relates loosely to this African legacy discussion. It can be seen here, http://www.nuestrosranchos.org/node/15438 The explanation of the painting is in http://www.nuestrosranchos.org/node/13941 Joseph very kindly added it for me. The explanation should be read first to understand the painting.

I felt also that because of the lighter skin the family has acquired through the years our Indeginous and Mulato ancestors would be forgotten if I didn’t make an effort to preserve it. Besides, the females of my line worked very hard to keep me up nights until they were remembered, working under the guidence of the Muse’s of my line and been exhausting and invigorating!
Linda in Everett

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com

I’ve entered in the albums section a painting I did that relates loosely to this African legacy discussion. It can be seen here, http://www.nuestrosranchos.org/node/15438 The explanation of the painting is in http://www.nuestrosranchos.org/node/13941 Joseph very kindly added it for me. The explanation should be read first to understand the painting.

I felt also that because of the lighter skin the family has acquired through the years our Indeginous and Mulato ancestors would be forgotten if I didn’t make an effort to preserve it. Besides, the females of my line worked very hard to keep me up nights until they were remembered, working under the guidence of the Muse’s of my line and been exhausting and invigorating!
Linda in Everett

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com

Esperanza and Welester,

Esperanza – you said “The tracing of African heritage was stopped after the Mexican Independence – no doubt due to the fact that Mexico’s 2nd president, Vicente Guerrero was a mulatto”. Do you think that is the reason that so many records were destroyed after the Independence and after the Revolution? I heard that Hitler had his army demolish every public building in his home town in Austria via weapons of mass destruction (rockets, etc), and that it wasn’t just for target practice. He wanted to be sure any records that would bring up a hidden Jew in his lineage would be obliterated. I hear that in Canada there is a move by some public official to destroy/and or deny public access to all family records, and some say it has to do with questions of his heritage or illegitimacy of birth.

I also find your comments about the French and Africans in Mexico interesting, especially because my father, who was born in Jerez in 1903, was so prejudiced against blacks and told us that his great-grandfather was known as El Frances in his community (Tepetongo or Salitrillo) and had blue eyes. I find through my searches that there are only Spaniards with Basque names (like Olague) and that way back they intermarried with Indios and that other lines of his had many listed as mulato (he would have been aghast). I haven’t found a single Frenchman in the bunch.

I cannot find any birth record for my father nor his sister nor of the marriage of his parents. I find no record of his maternal ancestors, only his paternal ancestors. My father did not look like his tall, very dark, handsome, curly-haired cousins. He was very short, only 5 foot like me, was medium complexioned, “chato”, and was born blond (my mother had a lock of blond hair given to her by his grandmother that she said had been from my father as a little boy). It seems so many families in Mexico place high value on light hair and skin. I am the darkest one in my family and the only one with curly hair. My mother couldn’t figure out why I came out that way except she said that my father had some very dark, curly haired cousins. In other words, she wanted it known that I was the result of something in his background, and not of hers, ha, ha.

I also wondered why there are so many people in South America with German and Italian surnames and their only language is Spanish. I have had to interpret for blond, blue-eyed people surnamed Schmidt here in the US who were from Argentina and only knew Spanish, and my husband had to interpret in Italy for some Argentinians of Italian descent who couldn’t speak Italian to their cousins there in Italy.

Emilie

—– Original Message —–
From: Latina1955@aol.com
To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Friday, December 29, 2006 1:46 PM
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Monterrey & African Legacy

Hi Welester,
The first mayor (kind of like a vice mayor) of Santiago and I had long
conversations regarding his heritage. Although he looks Mexican, his grandfather
was one of those French/Austrian soldiers. Apparently, his grandfather was
very young when he was sent to Mexico to fight. He was taken under the wing
of a Mexican family, and so when it was time to return, his grandfather was
hidden, and taken in by the same Mexican family, whereby later, he assumed this
family’s name. I have no reason to dispute his story..

But it gives you yet another thing to think about regarding the actual
tracing of French descendents throughout Mexico…it might be very difficult to
prove it through family surnames.

You are right about the estimated numbers, and most of them coming through
Veracruz – another port of entry was Guerrero and Oaxaca….and as mentioned,
there was the underground railroad…further, many of the Africans were taken
into Mexico City – where they were preferred over the indigenous populations
as servants (it was prestigious to have paid for servants). Additionally,
many states such as Zacatecas and Michoacan actually had more African presence
than Spanish presence in the 1500 and 1600’s. The tracing of African
heritage was stopped after the Mexican Independence – no doubt due to the fact that
Mexico’s 2nd president, Vicente Guerrero was a mulatto. Indeed, slavery was
abolished at this time. But as you say, sometimes the blood is
undeniable…and can be seen throughout all of Mexico….just think…even Menguin Pepin
managed to be “acceptable” …. even though if you think about it, it was yet
another form of denigrating the African inheritance.

There was a conscious movement occurring throughout all of Latin America to
“whiten” their blood. As they were looking at the progressive and prosperous
United States throughout the industrial revolution, they wondered whether in
part, this was attributable to the fact that their countries had large
populations of people of color. Consequently, during the 1800’s, many Latin
American countries offered Europeans free land to settle in their countries. I am
not sure if Mexico was involved in this attractive proposal, but I am sure
that such countries such as Venezuela and Colombia,others were….

Esperanza
Chicagoland area

Esperanza and Welester,

Esperanza – you said “The tracing of African heritage was stopped after the Mexican Independence – no doubt due to the fact that Mexico’s 2nd president, Vicente Guerrero was a mulatto”. Do you think that is the reason that so many records were destroyed after the Independence and after the Revolution? I heard that Hitler had his army demolish every public building in his home town in Austria via weapons of mass destruction (rockets, etc), and that it wasn’t just for target practice. He wanted to be sure any records that would bring up a hidden Jew in his lineage would be obliterated. I hear that in Canada there is a move by some public official to destroy/and or deny public access to all family records, and some say it has to do with questions of his heritage or illegitimacy of birth.

I also find your comments about the French and Africans in Mexico interesting, especially because my father, who was born in Jerez in 1903, was so prejudiced against blacks and told us that his great-grandfather was known as El Frances in his community (Tepetongo or Salitrillo) and had blue eyes. I find through my searches that there are only Spaniards with Basque names (like Olague) and that way back they intermarried with Indios and that other lines of his had many listed as mulato (he would have been aghast). I haven’t found a single Frenchman in the bunch.

I cannot find any birth record for my father nor his sister nor of the marriage of his parents. I find no record of his maternal ancestors, only his paternal ancestors. My father did not look like his tall, very dark, handsome, curly-haired cousins. He was very short, only 5 foot like me, was medium complexioned, “chato”, and was born blond (my mother had a lock of blond hair given to her by his grandmother that she said had been from my father as a little boy). It seems so many families in Mexico place high value on light hair and skin. I am the darkest one in my family and the only one with curly hair. My mother couldn’t figure out why I came out that way except she said that my father had some very dark, curly haired cousins. In other words, she wanted it known that I was the result of something in his background, and not of hers, ha, ha.

I also wondered why there are so many people in South America with German and Italian surnames and their only language is Spanish. I have had to interpret for blond, blue-eyed people surnamed Schmidt here in the US who were from Argentina and only knew Spanish, and my husband had to interpret in Italy for some Argentinians of Italian descent who couldn’t speak Italian to their cousins there in Italy.

Emilie

—– Original Message —–
From: Latina1955@aol.com
To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Friday, December 29, 2006 1:46 PM
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Monterrey & African Legacy

Hi Welester,
The first mayor (kind of like a vice mayor) of Santiago and I had long
conversations regarding his heritage. Although he looks Mexican, his grandfather
was one of those French/Austrian soldiers. Apparently, his grandfather was
very young when he was sent to Mexico to fight. He was taken under the wing
of a Mexican family, and so when it was time to return, his grandfather was
hidden, and taken in by the same Mexican family, whereby later, he assumed this
family’s name. I have no reason to dispute his story..

But it gives you yet another thing to think about regarding the actual
tracing of French descendents throughout Mexico…it might be very difficult to
prove it through family surnames.

You are right about the estimated numbers, and most of them coming through
Veracruz – another port of entry was Guerrero and Oaxaca….and as mentioned,
there was the underground railroad…further, many of the Africans were taken
into Mexico City – where they were preferred over the indigenous populations
as servants (it was prestigious to have paid for servants). Additionally,
many states such as Zacatecas and Michoacan actually had more African presence
than Spanish presence in the 1500 and 1600’s. The tracing of African
heritage was stopped after the Mexican Independence – no doubt due to the fact that
Mexico’s 2nd president, Vicente Guerrero was a mulatto. Indeed, slavery was
abolished at this time. But as you say, sometimes the blood is
undeniable…and can be seen throughout all of Mexico….just think…even Menguin Pepin
managed to be “acceptable” …. even though if you think about it, it was yet
another form of denigrating the African inheritance.

There was a conscious movement occurring throughout all of Latin America to
“whiten” their blood. As they were looking at the progressive and prosperous
United States throughout the industrial revolution, they wondered whether in
part, this was attributable to the fact that their countries had large
populations of people of color. Consequently, during the 1800’s, many Latin
American countries offered Europeans free land to settle in their countries. I am
not sure if Mexico was involved in this attractive proposal, but I am sure
that such countries such as Venezuela and Colombia,others were….

Esperanza
Chicagoland area

Linda,

That is a wonderful story and you are a great painter. You had a wonderful concept there with the women and the she-wolf. (I can’t believe you are a great-grandma). Makes me feel like getting out the old easel again too. My mother is descended from the Tewa-Manso-Piro (Pueblo tribes) of Paso del Norte/New Mexico, yet the covers of the booklets some of my cousins have put out only depict the Espanoles in their polished armor sitting on beautiful Arabian horses, ha! Just because every ancestor of my mother’s is listed as espanol up to 1821 when they stopped identifying their race, and many of them were white and blue-eyed, many of us descendants only have to look in the mirror and see that after 1821 they must have started intermarrying with the Indios. I haven’t any idea which tribes my father descends from in Zacatecas (his Indian ancestors were listed simply as Yndio), and I have no male Olagues related to my father to ask for their DNA. I haven’t had a DNA test done on
myself
yet. Maybe I will now.

By the way, did you move back to Everett from Canada?

Regards,

Emilie Garcia
Port Orchard, WA —
—– Original Message —–
From: Erlinda Castanon-Long
To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Friday, December 29, 2006 2:20 PM
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Monterrey & African Legacy

I’ve entered in the albums section a painting I did that relates loosely to this African legacy discussion. It can be seen here, http://www.nuestrosranchos.org/node/15438 The explanation of the painting is in http://www.nuestrosranchos.org/node/13941 Joseph very kindly added it for me. The explanation should be read first to understand the painting.

I felt also that because of the lighter skin the family has acquired through the years our Indeginous and Mulato ancestors would be forgotten if I didn’t make an effort to preserve it. Besides, the females of my line worked very hard to keep me up nights until they were remembered, working under the guidence of the Muse’s of my line and been exhausting and invigorating!
Linda in Everett

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com

Linda,

That is a wonderful story and you are a great painter. You had a wonderful concept there with the women and the she-wolf. (I can’t believe you are a great-grandma). Makes me feel like getting out the old easel again too. My mother is descended from the Tewa-Manso-Piro (Pueblo tribes) of Paso del Norte/New Mexico, yet the covers of the booklets some of my cousins have put out only depict the Espanoles in their polished armor sitting on beautiful Arabian horses, ha! Just because every ancestor of my mother’s is listed as espanol up to 1821 when they stopped identifying their race, and many of them were white and blue-eyed, many of us descendants only have to look in the mirror and see that after 1821 they must have started intermarrying with the Indios. I haven’t any idea which tribes my father descends from in Zacatecas (his Indian ancestors were listed simply as Yndio), and I have no male Olagues related to my father to ask for their DNA. I haven’t had a DNA test done on
myself
yet. Maybe I will now.

By the way, did you move back to Everett from Canada?

Regards,

Emilie Garcia
Port Orchard, WA —
—– Original Message —–
From: Erlinda Castanon-Long
To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Friday, December 29, 2006 2:20 PM
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Monterrey & African Legacy

I’ve entered in the albums section a painting I did that relates loosely to this African legacy discussion. It can be seen here, http://www.nuestrosranchos.org/node/15438 The explanation of the painting is in http://www.nuestrosranchos.org/node/13941 Joseph very kindly added it for me. The explanation should be read first to understand the painting.

I felt also that because of the lighter skin the family has acquired through the years our Indeginous and Mulato ancestors would be forgotten if I didn’t make an effort to preserve it. Besides, the females of my line worked very hard to keep me up nights until they were remembered, working under the guidence of the Muse’s of my line and been exhausting and invigorating!
Linda in Everett

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com

Emilie,
I have never thought that there was a conscious effort in destroying “actas”
for reasons related to destroying the African presence…I’ve always thought
about it as as a natural occurrence that would happen during a Revolutionary
War (form of destroying old political governments). Your suggestions gave
me reason to ponder that this might have occurred also during the War of
Independence. But if I were to venture to take a guess about the family stories
heard and stories of families in some pueblos who were French – but today, do
not hold those French last names, I would more venture to guess that it had
to do their presence not being very welcomed after Maximiliano’s government
failed. People knew who they were – but these immigrants would not necessarily
boast their presence – perhaps they took Spanish surnames to further
integrate themselves….as did this man’s grandfather from Santiago…Further, I
don’t think their presence was that many—I think I read that a total of 50,000
French/Austrian soldiers came in during this period – can’t say I know if
indeed most of them returned back home…it was a difficult period for French
citizens in France…..

Yes, like your family, I have siblings with blue eyes, siblings who look
like Indios, and of course siblings that look like me (lol) – a bit of this and
a bit of that….funny thing is that my blue eyed siblings have hair so curly,
they need a pick to comb it….

The German immigration to both the US and throughout Latin America first
started in the early to mid 1800’s, when their government was undergoing
tremendous changes. One of the biggest exodus of course was shortly after WWI. I
could go on, but my family is ushering me out the door….

I really appreciated hearing your thoughts – it gives me yet another
dimension to contemplate…

Esperanza
Chicagoland area

In a message dated 12/29/2006 4:51:47 P.M. Central Standard Time,
auntyemfaustus@hotmail.com writes:

Esperanza – you said “The tracing of African heritage was stopped after the
Mexican Independence – no doubt due to the fact that Mexico’s 2nd
president, Vicente Guerrero was a mulatto”. Do you think that is the reason that so
many records were destroyed after the Independence and after the Revolution?
I heard that Hitler had his army demolish every public building in his home
town in Austria via weapons of mass destruction (rockets, etc), and that it
wasn’t just for target practice. He wanted to be sure any records that would
bring up a hidden Jew in his lineage would be obliterated. I hear that in
Canada there is a move by some public official to destroy/and or deny public
access to all family records, and some say it has to do with questions of his
heritage or illegitimacy of birth.

I also find your comments about the French and Africans in Mexico
interesting, especially because my father, who was born in Jerez in 1903, was so
prejudiced against blacks and told us that his great-grandfather was known as El
Frances in his community (Tepetongo or Salitrillo) and had blue eyes. I find
through my searches that there are only Spaniards with Basque names (like
Olague) and that way back they intermarried with Indios and that other lines of
his had many listed as mulato (he would have been aghast). I haven’t found a
single Frenchman in the bunch.

I cannot find any birth record for my father nor his sister nor of the
marriage of his parents. I find no record of his maternal ancestors, only his
paternal ancestors. My father did not look like his tall, very dark, handsome,
curly-haired cousins. He was very short, only 5 foot like me, was medium
complexioned, “chato”, and was born blond (my mother had a lock of blond hair
given to her by his grandmother that she said had been from my father as a
little boy). It seems so many families in Mexico place high value on light hair
and skin. I am the darkest one in my family and the only one with curly
hair. My mother couldn’t figure out why I came out that way except she said
that my father had some very dark, curly haired cousins. In other words, she
wanted it known that I was the result of something in his background, and not of
hers, ha, ha.

I also wondered why there are so many people in South America with German
and Italian surnames and their only language is Spanish. I have had to
interpret for blond, blue-eyed people surnamed Schmidt here in the US who were from
Argentina and only knew Spanish, and my husband had to interpret in Italy for
some Argentinians of Italian descent who couldn’t speak Italian to their
cousins there in Italy.

Emilie

Emilie,
I have never thought that there was a conscious effort in destroying “actas”
for reasons related to destroying the African presence…I’ve always thought
about it as as a natural occurrence that would happen during a Revolutionary
War (form of destroying old political governments). Your suggestions gave
me reason to ponder that this might have occurred also during the War of
Independence. But if I were to venture to take a guess about the family stories
heard and stories of families in some pueblos who were French – but today, do
not hold those French last names, I would more venture to guess that it had
to do their presence not being very welcomed after Maximiliano’s government
failed. People knew who they were – but these immigrants would not necessarily
boast their presence – perhaps they took Spanish surnames to further
integrate themselves….as did this man’s grandfather from Santiago…Further, I
don’t think their presence was that many—I think I read that a total of 50,000
French/Austrian soldiers came in during this period – can’t say I know if
indeed most of them returned back home…it was a difficult period for French
citizens in France…..

Yes, like your family, I have siblings with blue eyes, siblings who look
like Indios, and of course siblings that look like me (lol) – a bit of this and
a bit of that….funny thing is that my blue eyed siblings have hair so curly,
they need a pick to comb it….

The German immigration to both the US and throughout Latin America first
started in the early to mid 1800’s, when their government was undergoing
tremendous changes. One of the biggest exodus of course was shortly after WWI. I
could go on, but my family is ushering me out the door….

I really appreciated hearing your thoughts – it gives me yet another
dimension to contemplate…

Esperanza
Chicagoland area

In a message dated 12/29/2006 4:51:47 P.M. Central Standard Time,
auntyemfaustus@hotmail.com writes:

Esperanza – you said “The tracing of African heritage was stopped after the
Mexican Independence – no doubt due to the fact that Mexico’s 2nd
president, Vicente Guerrero was a mulatto”. Do you think that is the reason that so
many records were destroyed after the Independence and after the Revolution?
I heard that Hitler had his army demolish every public building in his home
town in Austria via weapons of mass destruction (rockets, etc), and that it
wasn’t just for target practice. He wanted to be sure any records that would
bring up a hidden Jew in his lineage would be obliterated. I hear that in
Canada there is a move by some public official to destroy/and or deny public
access to all family records, and some say it has to do with questions of his
heritage or illegitimacy of birth.

I also find your comments about the French and Africans in Mexico
interesting, especially because my father, who was born in Jerez in 1903, was so
prejudiced against blacks and told us that his great-grandfather was known as El
Frances in his community (Tepetongo or Salitrillo) and had blue eyes. I find
through my searches that there are only Spaniards with Basque names (like
Olague) and that way back they intermarried with Indios and that other lines of
his had many listed as mulato (he would have been aghast). I haven’t found a
single Frenchman in the bunch.

I cannot find any birth record for my father nor his sister nor of the
marriage of his parents. I find no record of his maternal ancestors, only his
paternal ancestors. My father did not look like his tall, very dark, handsome,
curly-haired cousins. He was very short, only 5 foot like me, was medium
complexioned, “chato”, and was born blond (my mother had a lock of blond hair
given to her by his grandmother that she said had been from my father as a
little boy). It seems so many families in Mexico place high value on light hair
and skin. I am the darkest one in my family and the only one with curly
hair. My mother couldn’t figure out why I came out that way except she said
that my father had some very dark, curly haired cousins. In other words, she
wanted it known that I was the result of something in his background, and not of
hers, ha, ha.

I also wondered why there are so many people in South America with German
and Italian surnames and their only language is Spanish. I have had to
interpret for blond, blue-eyed people surnamed Schmidt here in the US who were from
Argentina and only knew Spanish, and my husband had to interpret in Italy for
some Argentinians of Italian descent who couldn’t speak Italian to their
cousins there in Italy.

Emilie

Hi Emilie, we’re snow birds and only live in Gold River, Vancouver Island 6 months a year. The other 6 months we’re open to anything.. this year it’s Everett again.

I don’t know my Zacatecas Indio ancestors bands either. There were so many different groups that came with the Spaniards into Zacatecas to tame those dawg-gone Chichimicas.. Since Indio’s come into my lines as mostly females, except my Garcia line in Jerez, I haven’t had any luck but one day… I keep searching and with the help of this group most of us will get farther than we can alone.. Actually to be able to find Indio surnames is a challenge in itself! I don’t plan on giving up just like you won’t either…

Linda in Everett

Emilie Garcia wrote:
Linda,

That is a wonderful story and you are a great painter. You had a wonderful concept there with the women and the she-wolf. (I can’t believe you are a great-grandma). Makes me feel like getting out the old easel again too. My mother is descended from the Tewa-Manso-Piro (Pueblo tribes) of Paso del Norte/New Mexico, yet the covers of the booklets some of my cousins have put out only depict the Espanoles in their polished armor sitting on beautiful Arabian horses, ha! Just because every ancestor of my mother’s is listed as espanol up to 1821 when they stopped identifying their race, and many of them were white and blue-eyed, many of us descendants only have to look in the mirror and see that after 1821 they must have started intermarrying with the Indios. I haven’t any idea which tribes my father descends from in Zacatecas (his Indian ancestors were listed simply as Yndio), and I have no male Olagues related to my father to ask for their DNA. I haven’t had a DNA test done on
myself
yet. Maybe I will now.

By the way, did you move back to Everett from Canada?

Regards,

Emilie Garcia
Port Orchard, WA —
—–
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Hi Emilie, we’re snow birds and only live in Gold River, Vancouver Island 6 months a year. The other 6 months we’re open to anything.. this year it’s Everett again.

I don’t know my Zacatecas Indio ancestors bands either. There were so many different groups that came with the Spaniards into Zacatecas to tame those dawg-gone Chichimicas.. Since Indio’s come into my lines as mostly females, except my Garcia line in Jerez, I haven’t had any luck but one day… I keep searching and with the help of this group most of us will get farther than we can alone.. Actually to be able to find Indio surnames is a challenge in itself! I don’t plan on giving up just like you won’t either…

Linda in Everett

Emilie Garcia wrote:
Linda,

That is a wonderful story and you are a great painter. You had a wonderful concept there with the women and the she-wolf. (I can’t believe you are a great-grandma). Makes me feel like getting out the old easel again too. My mother is descended from the Tewa-Manso-Piro (Pueblo tribes) of Paso del Norte/New Mexico, yet the covers of the booklets some of my cousins have put out only depict the Espanoles in their polished armor sitting on beautiful Arabian horses, ha! Just because every ancestor of my mother’s is listed as espanol up to 1821 when they stopped identifying their race, and many of them were white and blue-eyed, many of us descendants only have to look in the mirror and see that after 1821 they must have started intermarrying with the Indios. I haven’t any idea which tribes my father descends from in Zacatecas (his Indian ancestors were listed simply as Yndio), and I have no male Olagues related to my father to ask for their DNA. I haven’t had a DNA test done on
myself
yet. Maybe I will now.

By the way, did you move back to Everett from Canada?

Regards,

Emilie Garcia
Port Orchard, WA —
—–
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I believe in the early colonial period, many of the spainards coming into Mexico came in from Cuba and other parts of the caribbean. In the Carribean, as the native populations died off they were were replaced by afican slaves. Some of the spainards coming in from the caribbean had trafficed in black slaves. Black slaves were considered more reliable than indian slaves. The spainards had a system were a slave could gain his freedom according to rules that had been set down. Many of the original settlers of Monterrey had had black slaves.
—
Esther A. Herold

————– Original message from Latina1955@aol.com: ————–

>
> Emilie,
> I have never thought that there was a conscious effort in destroying “actas”
> for reasons related to destroying the African presence…I’ve always thought
> about it as as a natural occurrence that would happen during a Revolutionary
> War (form of destroying old political governments). Your suggestions gave
> me reason to ponder that this might have occurred also during the War of
> Independence. But if I were to venture to take a guess about the family
> stories
> heard and stories of families in some pueblos who were French – but today, do
> not hold those French last names, I would more venture to guess that it had
> to do their presence not being very welcomed after Maximiliano’s government
> failed. People knew who they were – but these immigrants would not necessarily
> boast their presence – perhaps they took Spanish surnames to further
> integrate themselves….as did this man’s grandfather from Santiago…Further,
> I
> don’t think their presence was that many—I think I read that a total of
> 50,000
> French/Austrian soldiers came in during this period – can’t say I know if
> indeed most of them returned back home…it was a difficult period for French
> citizens in France…..
>
> Yes, like your family, I have siblings with blue eyes, siblings who look
> like Indios, and of course siblings that look like me (lol) – a bit of this and
> a bit of that….funny thing is that my blue eyed siblings have hair so curly,
> they need a pick to comb it….
>
> The German immigration to both the US and throughout Latin America first
> started in the early to mid 1800’s, when their government was undergoing
> tremendous changes. One of the biggest exodus of course was shortly after WWI.
> I
> could go on, but my family is ushering me out the door….
>
> I really appreciated hearing your thoughts – it gives me yet another
> dimension to contemplate…
>
> Esperanza
> Chicagoland area
>
>
>
> In a message dated 12/29/2006 4:51:47 P.M. Central Standard Time,
> auntyemfaustus@hotmail.com writes:
>
> Esperanza – you said “The tracing of African heritage was stopped after the
> Mexican Independence – no doubt due to the fact that Mexico’s 2nd
> president, Vicente Guerrero was a mulatto”. Do you think that is the reason
> that so
> many records were destroyed after the Independence and after the Revolution?
> I heard that Hitler had his army demolish every public building in his home
> town in Austria via weapons of mass destruction (rockets, etc), and that it
> wasn’t just for target practice. He wanted to be sure any records that would
> bring up a hidden Jew in his lineage would be obliterated. I hear that in
> Canada there is a move by some public official to destroy/and or deny public
> access to all family records, and some say it has to do with questions of his
> heritage or illegitimacy of birth.
>
> I also find your comments about the French and Africans in Mexico
> interesting, especially because my father, who was born in Jerez in 1903, was
> so
> prejudiced against blacks and told us that his great-grandfather was known as
> El
> Frances in his community (Tepetongo or Salitrillo) and had blue eyes. I find
> through my searches that there are only Spaniards with Basque names (like
> Olague) and that way back they intermarried with Indios and that other lines of
> his had many listed as mulato (he would have been aghast). I haven’t found a
> single Frenchman in the bunch.
>
> I cannot find any birth record for my father nor his sister nor of the
> marriage of his parents. I find no record of his maternal ancestors, only his
> paternal ancestors. My father did not look like his tall, very dark, handsome,
> curly-haired cousins. He was very short, only 5 foot like me, was medium
> complexioned, “chato”, and was born blond (my mother had a lock of blond hair
> given to her by his grandmother that she said had been from my father as a
> little boy). It seems so many families in Mexico place high value on light
> hair
> and skin. I am the darkest one in my family and the only one with curly
> hair. My mother couldn’t figure out why I came out that way except she said
> that my father had some very dark, curly haired cousins. In other words, she
> wanted it known that I was the result of something in his background, and not
> of
> hers, ha, ha.
>
> I also wondered why there are so many people in South America with German
> and Italian surnames and their only language is Spanish. I have had to
> interpret for blond, blue-eyed people surnamed Schmidt here in the US who were
> from
> Argentina and only knew Spanish, and my husband had to interpret in Italy for
> some Argentinians of Italian descent who couldn’t speak Italian to their
> cousins there in Italy.
>
> Emilie
>
>
>
>