Wow Armando!,
This is great info. I’ll look through this information in more detail
Thanks again y Saludos,
Juan Aguayo
On Sat, Apr 7, 2012 at 3:30 PM, Armando wrote:
> Juan and Abram,
>
> I have finally read the dispensa. It has the following info:
>
> Juan Manuel González Bermejo was buried more than seven years and was
> buried in San Felipe, Guanajuato. This would have been in 1741 or 1740.
>
> Joseph González Bermejo admits to having had an illicit relationship with
> María Gertrudis de Chávez for seven years and fathering two children with
> her.
>
> María Gertrudis de Chávez is stated to be huerfana de madre and even though
> her dad is still alive he is so old he cannot work and because of this she
> lives with one of her sons; and she is a woman of more than thirty-three
> years of age and because of her poverty and family there would not be
> anyone of her equal that would want to marry her.
>
> There are two impediments. One for segundo con cuarto grado de
> consanguinidad between Joseph González Bermejo and María Gertrudis de
> Chávez and a tercero grado de afinidad because Juan Manuel González Bermejo
> and Joseph González Bermejo were second cousins.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Because of this info and other records we can now assume that Magdalena was
> born out of wedlock, between 1741 and 1 and was the daughter of Jospeh
> González Bermejo as her marriage record had stated.
>
> María Gertrudis de Chávez Fragoso was baptized 16 April 1715 in
> Aguascalientes to Alejandro de Chávez Fragoso and Paula de Rivas Lozano
>
> https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-266-13033-24724-1?cc=1410092&wc=6809994
>
> Alejandro de Chávez Fragoso and Paula de Rivas Lozano had their licencia or
> información matrimonial 04 Feb 1702 Volume 1702: image 36 This was found
> thanks to the PDF files made by George Fulton.
>
> https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-267-11671-66120-28?cc=1410092&wc=6810352
>
> The parents of Alejandro de Chávez Fragoso were Diego de Chávez Fragoso and
> Antonia de Villalobos married 22 February 1664 in Aguascalientes
>
> https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-266-12446-30300-45?cc=1410092&wc=6810679
>
> The parents of Antonia de Villalobos were Francisco de Villalobos y Pérez
> and María Vásquez de Retamosa married 22 May 1640 in Teocaltiche
>
> https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-19053-2891-27?cc=1874591&wc=12510890
>
> The parents of Francisco de Villalobos y Pérez were Cristóbal de Villalobos
> and María Pérez de Nava married 19 October 1594 en la Ciudad de México
>
> https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-11174-910-34?cc=1615259&wc=11160016
>
> The parents of María Vásquez de Retamosa, wife of Francisco de Villalobos y
> Pérez, were Gaspar Macías Valadez y Vásquez de Retamosa and Mariana Torres
> married 26 March 1612 in Aguascalientes
>
> https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-267-11824-51104-22?cc=1410092&wc=6809985
>
>
>
>
> Saludos
> Armando
>
>
> On Fri, Apr 6, 2012 at 1:42 AM, Juan Aguayo >wrote:
>
> > Armando,
> >
> > I’ve done a little more research and in the dispensa for the marriage of
> > Gertrudis de Chabes Joseph Gonzales Bermejo you will see on the first
> page
> > that Maria Gertrudis had two children from her first marriage with Manuel
> > Gonzales:
> >
> >
> >
> https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-18410-36169-93?cc=1874591&wc=12512688
> >
> > I found the babtismal records for both of these sons in San Felipe,
> > Guanajuato. The first for Franco. Gil Gonzales babtised on September 10 ,
> > 1735 whose padrinos are listed as Alejandro Chabes and Gertrudis Rivas:
> >
> >
> >
> https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1951-20584-11073-69?cc=1860831&wc=13965394
> >
> > And the second for Ramon Antto.Gonzales Chabes babtised September 15,
> 1736
> > whose padrinos are listed as Antto. Chabes and Paula Ribas:
> >
> >
> >
> https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1951-20584-10879-85?cc=1860831&wc=13965394
> >
> > So I now believe that Maria Magdalena Gonzales Bermejo is not the
> daughter
> > of Gertrudis de Chabes first marriage with Manuel Gonzales Bermejo.
> >
> > As you will see in the dispensa above, I believe it mentions that
> Gertrudis
> > de Chabes adopted two girls our of her good will due to their mother
> dying
> > and their father being too old to care for them. Take a look at the
> > dispensa and let me know if you have a different understanding. One of
> the
> > adopted girls may be Maria Magdalena Gonzales Bermejo.
> >
> > Let me know what you think.
> >
> > Saludos,
> > Juan
> >
> >
> > On Wed, Apr 4, 2012 at 11:45 AM, Juan Aguayo jcaguayo@stanfordalumni.org
> > >wrote:
> >
> > > Armando,
> > >
> > > You make a good point. This requires more investigation. I’ll let you
> > know
> > > if I find any clues. What I do know is that Maria Gertrudis de Chabes
> did
> > > marry two cousins, Manuel Gonzalez Bermejo (first husband) and Joseph
> > > Gonzales Bermejo (second husband).
> > >
> > > Regards,
> > > Juan
> > >
> > > On Wed, Apr 4, 2012 at 5:21 AM, Armando wrote:
> > >
> > >> Since Magdalena married in 1755 it is impossible for her to have been
> > born
> > >> after the marriage of Joseph González Bermejo and Gertrudis Chávez
> > Fragoso
> > >> which took place on **15 August 1748 in Teocaltiche, Jalisco.
> Therefore
> > it
> > >> is my belief there was an error that Joseph was her father and it
> > reality
> > >> it was Manuel,the first husband of Gertrudis Chávez Fragoso who was a
> > >> cousin of Joseph.
> > >>
> > >> Armando
> > >>
> > >> On Tue, Apr 3, 2012 at 8:31 PM, wrote:
> > >>
> > >> > Armando,
> > >> >
> > >> > Correct me if im wrong Armando.Ysidro Joseph Munos Married Maria
> > >> Magdalena
> > >> > Bermejo.Maria Magdalenas parents are Joseph Gonzalez-Bermejo and
> > >> Gertrudis
> > >> > De Chaves.Joseph parents are Diego Gonzalez-Bermejo and Andrea
> > >> > Lopes.Gertrudis parents are Alexandro De Chaves and Puala Rivas??
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> > Abram
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> >
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> > >
> > >
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Armando,
Omg thank you so much for this info thank you.I problably wouldn’t of not gone this far thank you.I had a question on the marriage record of Cristobal Villalobos, i think it mentions his parents and it also mentions that he was a natural from El Reyno De Castilla Spain am i wrong??And i really can’t find the name of his wife Maria Perez De Nava?
Abram
Estimado Armando,
Yo desciendo de esta pareja Alejandro de Chavez Fragoso y Gertrudis de Rivas Lozano y el Juan Manuel Gonzalez Bermejo. Me da gusto que otros comparten mis lineas, muchisimas gracias por sus estudios y busquedas, ya que ni tuve idea que havia registros en San Felipe en el obispado de Michoacan sobre esta familia.
Daniel Mendez de Torres Camino
Daniel,
Hi Daniel do you happen to have any info on Diego De Chavez Fragoso?
Abram
Estimado Daniel:
Es un placer haber sido de ayuda. Juan Aguayo también merece de tu gratitud
por haber participado bastante en este estudio.
Saludos
Armando
On Fri, Apr 13, 2012 at 11:05 AM, Daniel Mendez de Torres Camino wrote:
>
> Estimado Armando,
>
> Yo desciendo de esta pareja Alejandro de Chavez Fragoso y Gertrudis de
> Rivas Lozano y el Juan Manuel Gonzalez Bermejo. Me da gusto que otros
> comparten mis lineas, muchisimas gracias por sus estudios y busquedas, ya
> que ni tuve idea que havia registros en San Felipe en el obispado de
> Michoacan sobre esta familia.
>
> Daniel Mendez de Torres Camino
>
Armando,
Gracias por su reconocimiento. A sido un placer haber podido participar con
ustedes en este estudio y espero poder hacerlo en el futuro tambien.
Saludos,
Juan Aguayo
2012/4/13 Armando
> Estimado Daniel:
>
> Es un placer haber sido de ayuda. Juan Aguayo también merece de tu gratitud
> por haber participado bastante en este estudio.
>
> Saludos
> Armando
>
> On Fri, Apr 13, 2012 at 11:05 AM, Daniel Mendez de Torres Camino mendezdetorres@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> >
> > Estimado Armando,
> >
> > Yo desciendo de esta pareja Alejandro de Chavez Fragoso y Gertrudis de
> > Rivas Lozano y el Juan Manuel Gonzalez Bermejo. Me da gusto que otros
> > comparten mis lineas, muchisimas gracias por sus estudios y busquedas, ya
> > que ni tuve idea que havia registros en San Felipe en el obispado de
> > Michoacan sobre esta familia.
> >
> > Daniel Mendez de Torres Camino
> >
> > — — — — — — — — — — — — —
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> >
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> > research(at)nuestrosranchos.org
> >
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> >
