Hello-
Hello-
I have beenr researching these ancestors and know that many of us from Aguascalientes come from them. It seems that no one has any info on them besides an IGI File (posted below). Does anyone have this file in their records? I just wanted to ask before I ordered it. Also I think that there may be some possibility that Polonia Torres is the Daughter of Polonia Gamboa and Juan de La Torre from Colima Mexico.
but would like to locate the birth record of Polonia, or marriage record of her to Nicolas Ramirez or the marriage record of one of her children, Agueda Torres, apolonia torres,. Any help would be greatly appreciated.
IGI Individual Record FamilySearch™ International Genealogical Index v5.0
Mexico
Search Results | Download | Print
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POLONIA TORRES Pedigree
Female Family
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Event(s):
Birth: About 1569 Lagos De Moreno, Jalisco, Mexico
Christening:
Death:
Burial:
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Marriages:
Spouse: NICOLAS RAMIREZ Family
Marriage: 1590
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Messages:
Family group record submitted by a member of the LDS Church. The record includes the submitter’s name and address and names and relationships of family members. The address may be outdated. Some information is estimated. To find the record on the film, you must know the batch and sheet number.
——————————————————————————–
Source Information:
Batch Number: F867345
Sheet: 002
Source Call No.: 1553960 Type: Film
Yo tengo noticia de un hijo de Juan de la Torre y Polonia Gamboa, llamado Alonso de la Torre. ´
También me gustaría saber quienes son los padres de Nicolás Ramírez y Polonia de Torres, pues también son mis ancestros y de mucho mas personas de los Altos de Jalisco.
Saludos.
Jorge Luis Ramírez Gómez.
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Feliz aniversario Messenger!
www.aniversariomessenger.com.mx
Se me olvidaba decir lo siguiente:
Juan de la Torre, era natural de la Villa de Palma, en Córdoba, España, hijo de Rodrigo Alonso y Francisca de la Torre, pasó a la Nueva España aprox. en 1532, junto con dos hermanas que fueron casadas, Leonor de la Torre y otra que no se el nombre.
Casó con Polonia de Gamboa, con quien tuvo por hijos a Alonso de la Torre, María de la Torre mujer de Fernando Zarfate, y Hernando de Gamboa.
Saludos.
Jorge Luis Ramírez Gómez.
> To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
> From: ferraristeph@gmail.com
> Date: Tue, 4 Aug 2009 11:17:29 -0700
> Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Polonia Torres Y Nicolas Ramirez -15th century
>
> Hello-
>
> I have beenr researching these ancestors and know that many of us from Aguascalientes come from them. It seems that no one has any info on them besides an IGI File (posted below). Does anyone have this file in their records? I just wanted to ask before I ordered it. Also I think that there may be some possibility that Polonia Torres is the Daughter of Polonia Gamboa and Juan de La Torre from Colima Mexico.
>
>
> but would like to locate the birth record of Polonia, or marriage record of her to Nicolas Ramirez or the marriage record of one of her children, Agueda Torres, apolonia torres,. Any help would be greatly appreciated.
>
> IGI Individual Record FamilySearch™ International Genealogical Index v5.0
> Mexico
> Search Results | Download | Print
>
> ——————————————————————————–
>
>
> POLONIA TORRES Pedigree
> Female Family
>
>
> ——————————————————————————–
> Event(s):
> Birth: About 1569 Lagos De Moreno, Jalisco, Mexico
>
> Christening:
> Death:
> Burial:
>
>
> ——————————————————————————–
> Marriages:
> Spouse: NICOLAS RAMIREZ Family
> Marriage: 1590
>
>
>
> ——————————————————————————–
> Messages:
> Family group record submitted by a member of the LDS Church. The record includes the submitter’s name and address and names and relationships of family members. The address may be outdated. Some information is estimated. To find the record on the film, you must know the batch and sheet number.
>
>
> ——————————————————————————–
> Source Information:
> Batch Number: F867345
> Sheet: 002
> Source Call No.: 1553960 Type: Film
>
>
Hola, No hablo español que bien lo siento tan si soy confuso. Aquí está un acoplamiento a un libro con la información sobre Polonia Gamboa, su marido, y niños, pero no mencionan Polonia Torres. Tengo una sensación que están conectados pero que no pueden traducir estas escrituras. También, he estado intentando encontrar que una lista de familias de fundación de Lagos De Moreno b/c Polonia Torres es de ellas.
http://books.google.com/books?id=AdIs_kXt8zcC&pg=PA160&dq=polonia+gamboa#v=twopage&q=torre&f=false
Hi Steph:
The original founders of Lagos were families from Teocaltiche. You might
want to look in that area also.
Hola Stephanie: Los fundadores de Lagos fueron familias de Teocaltiche,
considera dirigir tu busqueda hacia esa area tambien.
John Gonzalez
—– Original Message —–
From:
To:
Sent: Wednesday, August 05, 2009 06:00
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Polonia Torres Y Nicolas Ramirez -15th century
>
>
> Hola, No hablo español que bien lo siento tan si soy confuso. Aquí está un
> acoplamiento a un libro con la información sobre Polonia Gamboa, su
> marido, y niños, pero no mencionan Polonia Torres. Tengo una sensación que
> están conectados pero que no pueden traducir estas escrituras. También, he
> estado intentando encontrar que una lista de familias de fundación de
> Lagos De Moreno b/c Polonia Torres es de ellas.
Hello Stephanie,
I don’t know who the parents of Nicolás Ramírez or Polonia de Torres were,
but have some other information about this family that may be of interest to
you. Nicolás Ramírez was the owner of “Hacienda de las Peñuelas” and one of
the founders of Aguascalientes in 1575. His name is in founder’s square in
the historical district of Aguascalientes. Both Nicolás and Polonia were
originally from Santa María de los Lagos, Jalisco, but lived in
Aguascalientes.
Bill Figueroa
—– Original Message —–
From: “John Gonzalez”
To:
Sent: Wednesday, August 05, 2009 10:01 AM
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Polonia Torres Y Nicolas
Ramirez -15thcentury
> Hi Steph:
>
> The original founders of Lagos were families from Teocaltiche. You might
> want to look in that area also.
>
> Hola Stephanie: Los fundadores de Lagos fueron familias de Teocaltiche,
> considera dirigir tu busqueda hacia esa area tambien.
>
> John Gonzalez
>
>
>
> —– Original Message —–
> From:
> To:
> Sent: Wednesday, August 05, 2009 06:00
> Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Polonia Torres Y Nicolas Ramirez -15th century
>
>
>>
>>
>> Hola, No hablo español que bien lo siento tan si soy confuso. Aquí está
>> un acoplamiento a un libro con la información sobre Polonia Gamboa, su
>> marido, y niños, pero no mencionan Polonia Torres. Tengo una sensación
>> que están conectados pero que no pueden traducir estas escrituras.
>> También, he estado intentando encontrar que una lista de familias de
>> fundación de Lagos De Moreno b/c Polonia Torres es de ellas.
>
H- John-
I have looked at the Historia de Teocaltiche but there is no specefic list of the families who found it. I then looked at the Chancerry de Vallodolid to see if there is a list of families under the founder Hernando Martel and still nothing. This is why I looked in Colima Mexico and found the Polonia Gamboa married to Juan de La torre. If I have missed something that you know of in the resources above, please let me know. Also , do you have any contact info for the Cronista of Lagos de Moreon or Teocaltiche? Hope your research is going well.
Thanks!
Hi Bill, good to hear from you 🙂
Thanks for the info on Nicolas because it confirms what I have. Do you think there are any papers from the Hacienda de las Peñuelas which would list his wife and her parents or thier marriage? Any leads for that would be great. Also,as I told, John Gonzalez, I have looked in the Chancerry de Vallodolid with not luck.
thanks again for your time,
Hi Steph:
The idea is that if you are researching a family from Lagos and come to a
brick wall, try researching the same family name, but in Teocaltiche. I
don’t know if there is a list of the families, who left to settle in Lagos,
but you could look for the earliest church records for Lagos.
Below you mentioned that : “I have looked at the history of Teocaltiche but
there is no specific list of the families who found it”
You are not looking for the families who founded Teocaltiche, you want the
families FROM Teocaltiche who founded Lagos.
John Gonzalez
> H- John-
>
> I have looked at the Historia de Teocaltiche but there is no specefic list
> of the families who found it…
I found a website long time ago about the history of Nueva Galicia, I think it was a university or something and there was a section about the foundation of Lagos and the many families that arrived in the late 1500s from teocaltiche. Ill try to look for it, -Daniel
_________________________________________________________________
Stephanie,
In his book “Aguascalientes y su región de influencia hasta 1810 – Sociedad y Política” historian José Antonio Gutiérrez Gutiérrez mentions that before the founding of Aguascalientes in 1575, Nicolás Ramírez, Cristobal de Mata, Francisco Gómez and Menzo López had been granted some land, which I suppose is where “Hacienda de las Peñuelas” is located. The earliest church records of Aguascalientes start in the early 1600s, so none of the baptismal records of the children of Nicolás Ramírez and Polonia de Torres are in the books. We know they had at least nine children, all born in Aguascalientes. Some of them used the surname Tavera, so there is one clue about their grandparents’ surname. As you probably know, using the surname of a grandparent was not uncommon in those days. There are marriage records from Aguascalientes where there is information about some of their children. For example the marriage of their daughter María de Tavera to Phelipe Macías Valadez on 01 July 1618 reads as follows:
“El 1 de julio de 1618 contrajo matrimonio Phelipe Macías Valadés, hijo de Alonso Macías Valadés y de María de Retamosa, con María de Tavera, hija de Nicolás Ramírez y de Polonia de Torres, vecinos de Aguascalientes. Testigos Alonso Macías y Francisco Macías. Veláronse el 3 de octubre de 1618. Fueron padrinos María de Torres y Antonio Tavera, hermanos de la pretensa.”
Some of the children were married at the private chapel in Las Peñuelas, like Mariana de Tavera who married Gaspar Macías Valadez on 06 March 1622. Their marriage record reads as follows:
“El 6 de marzo de 1612, en la Estancia de las Peñuelas de Nicolás Ramírez, contrajeron matrimonio Gaspar Macías y Mariana de Torres, siendo testigos Alonso Macías, y los mellizos y Nicolás Ramírez.”
Another daughter, Agueda de Torres y Tavera, married Hernando de Valdivia at the same chapel on 26 Jan 1622. Hernando was born at Villa de Serena, Extremadura, Reynos de Castilla.
I suppose the land grants are archived at the “Archivo de Tierras y Aguas” which is now part of the “Archivo Histórico de Jalisco”. Not to discourage you, but I have been through hundreds of documents from Tierras y Aguas and have never seen anything related to Nicolás Ramírez or Polonia de Torres.
I visited the ex-Hacienda de las Peñuelas in 2008, which is less than one mile from the airport. Interesting place. I was lucky to be there while a crew was filming a movie and was allowed to go in. I guess the guard thought I was a member of the crew. 🙂 Unfortunately, there are no documents stored there.
Bill Figueroa
Hi-
Was reading about the book below and it looks like it may have some kind of list of the founding families. Can anyone get access to this book? It might be out of print.
I do not know how reliable this list is but I found a list of some of the founding families on the internet from the “Santa Maria De Los Lagos” by Alfredo Moreno Gonzalez: I do not see any TORRES but there is a TAVERA DE LA VEGA so maybe that is Polonia Torre’s relative.
http://mx.geocities.com/genealogiademexico/primeros/0334santa.html
SANTA MARIA DE LOS LAGOS 1563
La elecci�n del primer ayuntamiento fue el 25 de julio de 1573
Alfredo Moreno Gonz�lez, Santa Mar�a de los Lagos, 1999, p. 58-59.
Primeros pobladores:
GRANIZO, Pedro integrante del primer ayuntamiento
TORRES VALD�S, Juan de integrante del primer ayuntamiento
MACIAS VALADEZ, Alonso integrante del primer ayuntamiento
HERN�NDEZ, Melchor
PALACIOS BOH�RQUEZ, Francisco de
G�MEZ DE PORTUGAL, Juan capit�n
LOPEZ, Catalina esposa del precedente
VIVAR, Diego de
L�PEZ DE NAVA, Juan capit�n, hijo del conq. Juan L�pez Jim.
L�PEZ MU�IZ, In�s esposa del precedente
TAVERA DE LA VEGA, Francisco capit�n
VALADEZ bachiller
PADILLA DE �VILA, Sancho
ARRONA, Juan de
MENA DELGADILLO, Hernando de la
PADILLA D�VILA Y DE VELASCO, Lorenzo de
TEMI�O DE VELASCO, Mariana esposa del precedente
PADILLA DE �VILA (o D�vila), Diego de
PADILLA D�VILA, Fernando de
CASTELLANO, Luis
MARFIL, Pedro
S�NCHEZ DE LARA, Juan
GIL DE LARA, Magdalena hermana del precedente
MACIAS VALADEZ, Juan
HERN�NDEZ CHAC�N, Pedro integrante del primer ayuntamiento
FALLERO, Antonio integrante del primer ayuntamiento
TREJO, Pedro de (muy posiblemente)
MU�OZ Y XEREZ, Rodrigo
L�PEZ DE LA MADRID, Catalina esposa del precedente
Presumiblemente tambi�n los que posteriormente fundaron Aguascalientes:
MONTORO, Juan de
AYALA, Micaela de esposa del precedente
ALARC�N, Alonso de
MONTORO, Crist�bal
AYALA, Catalina de esposa del precedente
MALAGA, Juan de
L�PEZ, Luis
CUEVA, Jer�nimo de la
Posiblemente tambi�n fueron:
L�PEZ ELIZALDE, Juan
SILVA, Gaspar
RAM�REZ, Nicol�s
GONZ�LEZ, Luis
LOZANO, Crist�bal
GONZ�LEZ, Pedro
HERN�NDEZ DE SANTA FE, Pedro
VARGAS, Pedro de
MARTELL, Hernando de
Congratulations Stephanie!!! You found the founding families of Santa Maria
de Los Lagos. I hope you’ll be able to find some leads here and continue
with your research. If anybody within our group can help you is Bill
Figueroa, I consider him “our” expert when it comes to Aguascalientes…
John Gonzalez
—– Original Message —–
From:
To:
Sent: Thursday, August 06, 2009 16:16
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Polonia Torres Y Nicolas Ramirez -15thcentury
>I do not know how reliable this list is but I found a list of some of the
>founding families on the internet from the “Santa Maria De Los Lagos” by
>Alfredo Moreno Gonzalez: I do not see any TORRES but there is a TAVERA DE
>LA VEGA so maybe that is Polonia Torre’s relative…
Hi Bill and Stephanie in my records I have Maria the one who married Felipe de Macias y Valades, as
Maria Ramirez de Tavera y Velasco o Maria Tavera y Velasco? How does the Velasco play in this? I have a suspicion
one of her paternal grandmother was Velasco, since she didnt use Torre, her mothers surname, while her other sisiters took
on there mothers surname? Tavera can also be Portuguese Tavira. But Castilianised would be Tavera, Tavira is a portuguese town near Sevilla. I think we also have to look at how the surnames were distributed in this family.
Usually Torres and de la Torre are the same
Apolonia Torres
Francisca Torres
Antonio Ramirez de Tavera
Maria Ramirez de Tavera or Maria Tavera y Velasco
Paula Torres
nicolas Ramirez de Tavera
Agueda Torres.
Out of all the girls Maria took her paternal name. Usually for importance or after a grandmother. We need to keep researching, but what since Antonio took Ramirez, Nicolas’ parents could be a Antonio Ramirez de Tavera and Maria de Velasco? Just a thought.
Also Nicolas and Apolonias Grandchildren took on various surnames. La Audencia de Guadalajara has to have some record on them.
-Daniel Camino
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