Bill tienes razón en todo lo que dices, solo que considere despectivo discriminativo los nombres que les daban, e notado también en las escrituras delas actas de matrimonio, esta la de un señor de dinero de Jerez, con una letra limpia bonita , y en las siguiente una familia creo pobre yo , con una letra casi que apenas se entiende Respecto a los apellidos otro grupo, que también se les respeto y tienen apellidos indígenas, son los purépechas de Michoacán, Coahuila es uno de los principales estados como comente los indios tlaxcaltecas en la actualidad y es una ceremonia lo que se realiza por el evento y desde antes de la colonia tengo entendido salían familias a otras regiones, no se por ser mas desarrollados lo hacían, y si se fijan en el sarape de saltillo, también se usa mucho en Tlaxcala y su similitud , en los libros de registros de Zacatecas encontré indígenas con apellidos Llamas, Escobedo, y también , en cometarios anteriores me decían que cambian el apellido según con el patrón que trabajara, lo que no supe comentar bien los de las actas en el estado de Coahuila donde dice que son originarios de Tlaxcala como dice el compañero Lunalatina

Bill you are right in everything you say, just consider discriminative derogatory names given to them, and also noticed in the writings Delàs records of marriage, is the money of a gentleman of Jerez, with a letter pretty clean, and the following a poor family I think, almost with a letter that just means it comes to surnames another group, which also respect them and have indigenous names, the Purépecha of Michoacán, Coahuila is a major Indian states like tlaxcaltecas comment at present and is a ceremony which is performed by the event and before leaving the colony I understand families to other regions, not because they were more developed, and if you look at the Saltillo serape, is also used much in Tlaxcala and its similarity in the record books Zacatecas indigenous surnames found Llamas, Escobedo, and also, in previous comments told me that the name change according to the pattern that worked, what did not comment on either of the records in the state of Coahuila, where it says are from Tlaxcala as the companion lunalatina

SALVADOR CABRAL VALDES

Hi latina
Where are at?
 
Thank you
 
Juan Ramón Alvarez

— On Sat, 7/25/09, Latina1955@aol.com wrote:

From: Latina1955@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Surnames in the 1600s
To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Date: Saturday, July 25, 2009, 12:17 PM

I can’t write in Spanish very well, but what Salvador says, I can  confirm.

I have been able to trace ancestry (Coahuila) area to “indios” Tlascaltecas
via birth certificate documents.  I was initially surprised that this
tribe  was in Coahuila (as I heard Malinche was Tlacalteca).  But after doing 
research, I found that these were one of the few Indian Nations that were 
considered “civilized” by the Spaniards – I am surmising because they helped
in  the conquist of Mexico.  The surnames for my Indian ancestry is as 
follows:

.   
Gaspar Bermeo married abt 1742 MaCandalaria de los Rios in Nadadores, 
Coahuila (Indios Tlaxcaltecos)
+Lucas Bermeo Rios married  Feb 15, 1768 Andrea Flores
+Tomas Bermea Rios married  Jan 27, 1762 Juana Flores (Gigedo)
Esperanza Villarreal, Chicagoland area

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Hay un libro que habla de la colonización tlaxcalteca del norte del país, del siglo XVI hasta la actualidad:

La Diáspora Tlaxcalteca. Colonización agrícola del norte mexicano. Dr. Tomás Martínez Saldaña. Tlaxcallan, ediciones del gobierno del estado. Segunda edición. Tlaxcala, México, 1998.

Saludos,

Luis

> From: Latina1955@aol.com
> Date: Sat, 25 Jul 2009 15:17:49 -0400
> To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Surnames in the 1600s
>
> I can’t write in Spanish very well, but what Salvador says, I can confirm.
>
> I have been able to trace ancestry (Coahuila) area to “indios” Tlascaltecas
> via birth certificate documents. I was initially surprised that this
> tribe was in Coahuila (as I heard Malinche was Tlacalteca). But after doing
> research, I found that these were one of the few Indian Nations that were
> considered “civilized” by the Spaniards – I am surmising because they helped
> in the conquist of Mexico. The surnames for my Indian ancestry is as
> follows:
>
> .
> Gaspar Bermeo married abt 1742 MaCandalaria de los Rios in Nadadores,
> Coahuila (Indios Tlaxcaltecos)
> +Lucas Bermeo Rios married Feb 15, 1768 Andrea Flores
> +Tomas Bermea Rios married Jan 27, 1762 Juana Flores (Gigedo)
> Esperanza Villarreal, Chicagoland area
>
> **************A bad credit score is 600 & below. Checking won’t affect your
> score. See now!
> ( http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1222585106x1201462830/aol?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072&hmpgI
> D=62&bcd=JulyBadfooterNO62)

Bill and others- forgive my not being able to reply in Spanish – albeit I
can read Spanish with some fluency, I am embarrassed to write it .

Fascinated to know that you did your dissertation in our area of interest!!
Accordingly, were you the one that once posted some indigenous cultures
adopted surnames that reflected their surroundings? Might you be referring
to the Tlaxcaltecas as well? It seems to align with what I have found with
my Tlacalteca ancestry: “del Rio”, “Flores”…..while the Bermea/Bermeo
certainly sounds like an inherited surname from the Spanish, as were
subsequent surnames that they married into.

Esperanza Villarreal – Chicagoland area

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Hi Esperanza, surnames that were ‘typically’ given to native americans could have also been names used by Spaniards. My grandfather had a friend in Mexico named Rodrigo Martínez del Río and he was Mexican of Spanish descent. His family is pretty famous down there. Los Martínez del Río. Like also, de la Cruz, etc. I have seen native last names actually in records like Michoacan ocassially ill find Tarascans with names like José María Antioco hijo de Pedro Antioco y María Luz Jallahua. Names are pretty interesting. -Daniel Camino

_________________________________________________________________
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In some baptismal records that I have seen, “de la Reyes” was attached to a given name of a child born on or around the time of Feast of the Three Kings (Jan 6), and “de la Trinidad” given to a child born around the time of the feast of the Holy Trinity (I can’t recall the date). The COMPLETE GIVEN NAME would be “given name + feast day name”, followed by a surname. Has anyone else noticed this naming pattern?

Natalie

That’s interesting….because the tradition still lived in my Jalisco
roots. Each child was named after the saints….so if you were born on
November 4th, your name would be Carlos or Carlotta – but you might add a family
name to it, such as Juan Carlos.
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I was told of the traditional naming pattern of the given named many years ago. I found a book “The Lives of the Saints” by Omer Englebert, it’s published by Barnes and Noble and is a great book if one wants to know the saint assigned to each day. I’m glad I wasn’t name after the saint on my birthday……otherwise I’d be called “Eve”.

I have a friend that was born in Chihuahua and had moved to California when she was 9. She recently told me a story about her name. Her parents were not traditional and had named her after the movie star “Norma Shearer” of the 1940’s. Norma’s other siblings were either named after American movie stars or Mexican singers so that when everyone in their village were celebrating their saints day…..Norma and her siblings could not. She said that she felt left out and until she told me this story she didn’t know the exact name of the movie star until I researched it for her.

I find it an interesting story and wanted to share it.

Rose Gonzales-Hardy

Hi, I just thought I would add my two bits. So, I was born Ash Wednesday, in Jalisco. Could I have been called “Cenicienta”?
🙂 Esther Jordan (Lopez)

I was told of the traditional naming pattern of the given named many years ago.
I found a book “The Lives of the Saints” by Omer Englebert, it’s published by
Barnes and Noble and is a great book if one wants to know the saint assigned to
each day. I’m glad I wasn’t name after the saint on my birthday……otherwise
I’d be called “Eve”.

I have a friend that was born in Chihuahua and had moved to California when she
was 9. She recently told me a story about her name. Her parents were not
traditional and had named her after the movie star “Norma Shearer” of the
1940’s. Norma’s other siblings were either named after American movie stars or
Mexican singers so that when everyone in their village were celebrating their
saints day…..Norma and her siblings could not. She said that she felt left
out and until she told me this story she didn’t know the exact name of the
movie star until I researched it for her.

I find it an interesting story and wanted to share it.

Rose Gonzales-Hardy

Daniel,
I disagree with 1920 as the date when slavery was abolished in Mexico. It happen much earlier. I found an interesting site on slavery by a group at the University of Barcelona ( http://www.cedt.org) that includes a useful chronology on the subject ( http://www.cedt.org/crono.htm). Mexicans generally accept that slavery was abolished by Father Hidalgo in 1810. However, actual abolishment did not happen until 1821 with Mexico’s Independence from Spain, but it only applied to the people born in Mexico (thus, I guess slaves could still be imported). Slavery was abolished in all forms by decree (the third of its kind) by President Vicente Guerrero in 1829, although it was was not incorporated into law until the new Constitution of 1857.
Evidence in favor of the earlier abolishment of slavery comes from Church records. I have not been able to find any reference to the status of slavery in any christening, wedding or burial after 1821 (at least in Aguascalientes, Jalisco, Coahuila and Nuevo Leon). This followed closely a decree by Father Jose Maria Morelos y Pavon that instructed that no distinction of race should be made in any of these records. Thus, while there may not have been written law, the effect was the same.
Now lets remember, that slavery of Indians was abolished much earlier (XVI century). In fact, several Conquistadors were subject to the Spanish Inquisition for slaving Mexican indigenous people in violation of Royal decree.

“La Corona hispana, atendiendo estas voces, prohibe desde el principio la esclavización de los indios en reiteradas Cédulas y Leyes reales (1523, 1526, 1528, 1530, 1534, Leyes Nuevas 1542, 1543, 1548, 1550, 1553, 1556, 1568, etc.), o la autoriza sólamente en casos extremos, acerca de indios que causan estragos o se alzan traicionando paces -caribes, araucanos, chiriguanos-. En 1530, por ejemplo, en la Instrucción de la Segunda Audiencia de México, el Rey prohibe la esclavitud en absoluto, proceda ésta de guerra, «aunque sea justa y mandada hacer por Nos», o de rescates (+Castañeda 59-60).”

Jaime Alvarado

Esther – the Catholic Church actually had a calendar with all the Saints
names – for males and females. I got a chuckle out of your “Cinderella”
name.
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My father was born on Jan.6th, 1934. His baptismal records show his name as “Jose Reyes” which was latter changed. My uncle Santiago is the only one who kept his “saint” name. I also have a saint name, my middle name is “Christopher”…poor Saint Christopher is no longer recoginzed as a saint, but I love him anyway…

Thank you all for the information and lively discussion! This has been quite helpful. I would have thanked everyone sooner, but I spent the weekend at the North American Basque Festival in Reno, and at the Goyhenetche Family Reunion (they are French Basques) that was held in conjunction with it.

Things that I have read of the Basques in Colonial Mexico seem to still be true today: the family is of primary importance. At the reunion, there were probably 150 people from California to Colorado, and every state in between!

Unfortunately, I had to miss the Nueva Galicia Genealogical Society meeting; but we may not have another reunion for 5 years!

George Fulton
Pleasanton, CA

Hi Bill, I am a bit confused how does Juan and Francisco fit into the Tiscareno family? is Juan the same Juan son of Luis and Lorenza? -Daniel
_________________________________________________________________

Hi Daniel,

Francisco Tiscareño was the illegitimate child of Juan Tiscareño, son of
Luis Tiscareño de Molina and Lorenza Ruiz de Esparza. Capt. Juan Tiscareño
was 26 years old when he married Isabel Romo de Vivar, but before he married
her he had an out of wedlock child with an unknown mother, probably an
indian girl from the ranch. This child, Francisco, grew up at the
Tiscareño’s ranch and was recognized as a son by Juan Tiscareño. Francisco
married María de Huerta, also a mestiza, ca. 1680. They baptized four
legitimate children in Aguascalientes between 1681 and 1687. María de
Huerta died 5 Aug 1687, two weeks after her last son was born. Francisco
remarried in 1690 and had at least one child with his second wife Margarita
Sánchez, also mestiza. Margarita Tiscareño was born in 1696. I’m still
extracting baptismal information for the period 1696-1701, so I may find
other children for this couple. An the beat goes on…

Bill Figueroa

—– Original Message —–
From: “Daniel M�ndez del Camino”
To: “Patty Hoyos”
Sent: Tuesday, July 28, 2009 12:32 AM
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Surnames in the 1600s and early 1700

Hi Bill, I am a bit confused how does Juan and Francisco fit into the
Tiscareno family? is Juan the same Juan son of Luis and Lorenza? -Daniel