It’s in Film number: 233873 which is Matrimonios 1755-1784

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-18696-11596-60?cc=1874591&wc=M99L-LNZ:1755299887

You might have to go page by page to find it.

Armando

Gil Ramirez
Thank you very much, I found it. Now the problem is that I cannot read it. I can read only that Thomas Ramires was from Zapotlan and Vecino de “Zacoalco” for 4 years. I believe that Zapotlan is in Ciudad Guzman, Jalisco. The confusing part is that the name if his father appears to be Antonio Rodriguez (Annt Rodrig) and not Antonio Ramires. Thomas Ramires mother was Theresa Ramires. Is “Rodrig” a mistake by the church or is ” Rodrig” short for Ramires. I’m thinking this is just a simple error by the church and did not want to cross it out to correct. https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-18696-12042-5?cc=1874591&wc=M99L-LNZ:1755299887

Gil

Thomas Ramírez chose to use the surname of his mother instead of the surname of his father.

Armando

Gil Ramirez

I don’t understand. Was he a legitimate child? Was this a common practice? Was Thomas’s last name Rodriguez or was he Thomas Rodrigo. I’m going to research the marriage between T. Rodriguez and Theresa Ramires. Hope I can find somehting. By the way, really appreciate the help.

Hello Gilberto.

I emailed you privately, through nuestros ranchos but I’m not sure I did it right. Your profile caught my attention because I notice that you have ancestors in Zacoalco and Santa Catarina. Several of my surnames come from this area, especifically from Santa Catarina: Apodaca, Gomez, Moreno, Cervantes, Bonal, Salazar. You can check part of my family tree in the files section and compare it with your genealogy to see if we probably have a common ancestor. I hope we can compare and share some of our research in the future.

Saludos

Steve in NC.

Gil Ramirez

I registered at Nuestros Ranchos about a year ago but I just started to post a few days ago. I do have the surname Moreno thru my mothers side. My mothers maternal and paternal side also have the surname Moreno. My maternal grandfathers grandmother was Maria Ysac Moreno and her father was Esteban Moreno. Maria Isac was born in Santa Catarina. I also have the surname Gomez thru my maternal grandfather. Maria Ysac Moreno was married to a Jose Gomez. I used to frequent Santa Catarina and Zacoalco about 10 years ago. My brother, sister, father and mother still travel and stay out there. How much do you know about the towns? I will try to look for the private message. I’m just getting familiar with the website. I will keep in touch for sure.

Best Regards
Gilberto in CA

Gil Ramirez

I just found this.
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/JCFK-9CK
I believe you might be right. I am still not able to find the birth of Thomas Rodrigues(Ramires). I will keep looking, thanks for the help.

I also tried to look for the marriage between Antonio Rodriguez and Teresa Ramires 06 July 1706 using Zapotlan el Grande but the film roll(microfiche) does not go that far back. How are you finding the correct film rolls? Well at least I know that Juan Ramires and Juana de Cardenas were Teresa’s parents.

Gilberto

There should never have been doubt that I was right about this.

Armando

Steve, my family has been living in Sta. Catarina for many many years. Many of my realtives that include great x6 grandparents were either born and lived in Sta Ana, Zacoalco, Los Pozos or Sta. Catarina. I have the following surnames that start with most recent Ramirez, Arreola, Govea, Castillo, Veronica, Gomez, Moreno, Hernandez, Toscano and then the far distant, Quinones, Oliberos, Andrade, Moya, Bonal, Guerta and many many more.

Gilberto

Wow, we are definitely related! Jesus Gomez and Ysaac Moreno were my 2nd greatgrandparents. My greatgrandfather was their child Urbano Gomez Moreno, who married Elena Curiel. They had several children, including my grandmother Maria Luisa Gomez who married Arnulfo Apodaca. My father is their son Jose Apodaca Gomez. If you still have family in Catarina, I’m sure my father knows them. From what child of Jesus Gomez and Ysaac Moreno do you descend from?

That’s great. With you, I am now related to 5 nuestros ranchos members!

Saludos.

Just curious, can you tell me who are your Bonal ancestors? We may be related through that line too.

Hello Steve, well guess what I found.
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-18698-27655-71?cc=1874591&wc=M99L-L4L:n1388006117

My dads paternal great grandmother(Maria Ysabel Castillo) great grandpa Luis Antonio Castillo Bonal was baptized by Francisco Bonal and Maria Ysabel Gutierrez on 19 Jun 1775 in Zacoalco. Your great… grand parents also baptized Juan Jose Castillo Bonal 06 Feb,1779 who was Luis’s brother. Their father was Francisco Castillo and their mother was Leonicia Bonal(Dionisia Bonal). Look into this and let me know what else you find. Based on your chart Gertrudis Aniceta Bonal was baptized April 17, 1765. This leads me to believe that Leonicia Bonal and Francisco Bonal were probably brothers. Luis Castillo Bonal and Maria Valdes had several sons and daughters. Mariana Castillo Valdes was one daughter that married Prudencio Valencia Anguiano. Prudencio Valencia and Mariana Castillo gave birth to a Maria Concepcion de Jesus that married into the Uribe Echauri family(Alberto Echauri Uribe). Maria Concepcion and Alberto Uribe were the parents of Ramon, Manuel and Alberto Uribe Valencia. Your grandparents would have told you stories of Ramon and Manuel Uribe Valencia. Their grandpa Prudencio Anguiano Valencia owned the Hacienda del Gancho in Sta. Catarina. Luis Castillo’s son, Ygnacio Castillo Valdes(who’s sister married Prudencio Anguiano Valencia) was a foreman in charge of the Hacienda. Ygnacio Castillo’s daughter, Maria Ysabel Castillo, married Jose Maria Celso Ramires who was my dads great grandpa. The Valencia Uribe brothers frequented my dads grandpas house for many years. My dad has many stories about the Valencia Uribes but was unaware that he was related to them thru his Great grandmother. Now that he knows, everything makes more sense now. The Uribe Valencia family was very close to the Ramirez family, they were relatives. There’s a lot more that I will be sharing. I will be asking my parents if they knew your parents and great grandparents.

Your Primo
Gil

Wow…This is more than cool. We descend from Maria Gomez who married Felipe Arreola(great grandpa). They had my grandfather Poli Arreola. My mom says that Urbano Gomez Moreno died Nov 2 1948. She remembers that date because her brother was born on the same day. My grandpa Poli used to tell my mom that my uncle, who was born on the same day Urbano died, was a reincarnation of Urbano, and he was serious about it. Elena Curiel baptized my grandmother Guadalupe Govea. My mom and dad say that Elena lived a very very long life.

Yes, my father told me some stories about la hacienda El Gancho and the family Uribe Valencia. What I didn’t know is that they were related to the Bonal family, and thus, related to both of us. The tree that I have on nuestrosranchos is a little bit outdated and I have found additional information. I do have your ancestor Leonicia(Dionicia)Bonal in my family file as well as her husband Francisco Castillo and her children. I did a small research on this family not long ago trying to break a wall, and I can tell you with certainty, that Dionisia is the daughter of Francisco Bonal and Ysabel Gutierrez. I haven’t found Dionisia’s marriage documents, but I did find her baptism record. This is what I found about this family when checking lots of records.

Francisco Bonal was originally from Zacoalco. On several documents it is stated that he’s the son of “padres no conocidos”. His wife Ysabel Gutierrez was from Santa Cruz in Tlajomulco and they married there on 26 Feb 1748. Here’s a link to their marriage record. It’s the second on the second page:

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-18570-15443-17?cc=1874591&wc=M99L-J4C:n1098878700

Well, they had several children baptized in Tlajomulco, the youngest being your direct ggggreatgrandmother Dionisia Franca. Bonal, baptized on 20 Apr 1749. Her baptism is the first on the second page here:

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-18684-59879-70?cc=1874591&wc=M99L-J9H:648850220

Sometime right before 1760, the family moved to Santa Catarina and the rest of their children were born there, including my 4th great grandmother Gertrudis Aniseta Bonal, baptized on 23 Apr 1765. This is her baptism:

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-18697-41774-98?cc=1874591&wc=M99L-L4K:1594966591

So you see, Dionisia and Gertrudis were sisters. We also have common ancestors with Francisco Bonal and Ysabel Gutierrez. I did compile info on Dionisia’s children but I did not go any further since I tried to focus on my direct ancestors. I really had no idea that we share a common ancestor with the Uribe Valencia family. I have also been told that my Apodaca ancestors also worked as capataces in the hacienda, and probably the family ties, though distant, may explain that. Last time I went to Mexico, I bought a booklet about Catarina and some of the hacienda’s history. I read it with interest, but now I will appreciate that history even more. I would love to know your stories from Catarina. I will contact my dad and tell him about what you told me. By the way, do you have a facebook account?

Steve in NC