The book is called “Haciendas de Jalisco y aledaños 1506-1821”, by Ricardo
Lancaster-Jones.

—–Original Message—–
From: general-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
[mailto:general-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org] On Behalf Of Elisa Joyce
Sent: Thursday, May 13, 2010 12:23 PM
To: general@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] General Digest, Vol 52, Issue 1

What’s the name of that book again? Some of my family comes from those
Haciendas.

On Thu, May 6, 2010 at 4:05 PM,
wrote:

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> DAILY DIGEST
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> Today’s Topics:
>
> 1. “Haciendas de Jalisco y aleda?os” (Susan and Joe Cadena)
>
>
> ———————————————————————-
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Wed, 5 May 2010 21:07:47 -0700
> From: “Susan and Joe Cadena”
> To:
> Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] “Haciendas de Jalisco y aleda?os”
> Message-ID:
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=”iso-8859-1″
>
> Thanks to all who responded to my question about this book. I was able to
> obtain it through Interlibrary Loan and I have this copy (from Occidental
> College Library) until May 12. Based on my cursory glance through the
book,
> I do not expect to find anything helpful for my own research. (I had been
> hopeful that Hacienda El Salto would be mentioned.)
>
> But I am listing the Table of Contents here in case other members might
> want
> to order the book for their own research:
> I. Como encontraron la Tierra los Conquistadores
> II. Algunas Mercedes del Siglo XVI
> III. Reestructuraciones del Siglo XVII
> IV. M?s cambios en el Siglo XVIII
> V. Mayorazgos de Nueva Galicia y Provincia de Avalos
> VI. Los propiedades Rusticas de la Iglesia en Nueva Galicia y Provincia de
> Avalos, despues Intendencia de Guadalajara. Conclusiones
>
> Some of the specific Haciendas mentioned are: La Venta del Astillero;
> Toluquilla; Cabezon; Portillo; Mazatepec; Ahuacapan Miraflores; Ledezma;
La
> Punta; Santa Maria; Jaltomate; Palo Alto; Los Campos; Ojuelos; Penuelos;
> Sauceda; Buenavista.
>
> Unfortunately there is no index, so it is very difficult to find
> information about a specific place easily.
>
>

It’s interesting that you are looking for the same hacienda “El Salto Grande” that I been researching but have not found definitive inforamation on it. I was planning on visiting Occindential last weekend but saw that the book was checked out. I guess you have it.

It’s unfortunate that you were not able to find information on it. My cousin who lives in Jalostotitlan, married a lady from Tepatitlan. He told the the Hacienda is located about 5 leguas de Tepatitlan, which is about 20km. He heard the hacienda lies between Tepa and Yahualica. If you do a google map on the area, the road to Yahualica, you will find a Ranch called El Salto. It might be were the hacienda was once located. This summer I plan to rent a car and visit some to the cities my ancestors lived, Ocotlan, Mexticacan, Cuquio, Tepa and of course Jalos.

I’m researching the decendents of Franciscos Gtz de Hermosillo (Rubio) and Juana de Lomelin. This is my father direct paternal line. Not sure if you are researching this same line. If you are, I have a lot detail information on this family that I can share.

Sergio Gutierrez de Hermosillo y Martin del Campo

I am not at home to check my records but near the valle is a place known as el salto
——Original Message——
From: xalos68@hotmail.com
Sender: general-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
To: general@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
ReplyTo: general@nuestrosranchos.org
ReplyTo: xalos68@hotmail.com
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Hacienda El Salto Grande
Sent: May 13, 2010 8:29 PM

It’s interesting that you are looking for the same hacienda “El Salto Grande” that I been researching but have not found definitive inforamation on it. I was planning on visiting Occindential last weekend but saw that the book was checked out. I guess you have it.

It’s unfortunate that you were not able to find information on it. My cousin who lives in Jalostotitlan, married a lady from Tepatitlan. He told the the Hacienda is located about 5 leguas de Tepatitlan, which is about 20km. He heard the hacienda lies between Tepa and Yahualica. If you do a google map on the area, the road to Yahualica, you will find a Ranch called El Salto. It might be were the hacienda was once located. This summer I plan to rent a car and visit some to the cities my ancestors lived, Ocotlan, Mexticacan, Cuquio, Tepa and of course Jalos.

I’m researching the decendents of Franciscos Gtz de Hermosillo (Rubio) and Juana de Lomelin. This is my father direct paternal line. Not sure if you are researching this same line. If you are, I have a lot detail information on this family that I can share.

Sergio Gutierrez de Hermosillo y Martin del Campo

Sergio,

I returned the book to my library on Tuesday, so Occidental should have it
back any day now. I am happy to hear of someone else’s interest in El Salto
– and the line of Francisco Gtz de Hermosillo and Juana Lomelin. Francisco
is also in my husband’s direct paternal line, and we are most interested in
sharing research results!

Susan Cadena

—–Original Message—–
From: general-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
[mailto:general-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org] On Behalf Of
xalos68@hotmail.com
Sent: Thursday, May 13, 2010 8:30 PM
To: general@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Hacienda El Salto Grande

It’s interesting that you are looking for the same hacienda “El Salto
Grande” that I been researching but have not found definitive inforamation
on it. I was planning on visiting Occindential last weekend but saw that the
book was checked out. I guess you have it.

It’s unfortunate that you were not able to find information on it. My cousin
who lives in Jalostotitlan, married a lady from Tepatitlan. He told the the
Hacienda is located about 5 leguas de Tepatitlan, which is about 20km. He
heard the hacienda lies between Tepa and Yahualica. If you do a google map
on the area, the road to Yahualica, you will find a Ranch called El Salto.
It might be were the hacienda was once located. This summer I plan to rent a
car and visit some to the cities my ancestors lived, Ocotlan, Mexticacan,
Cuquio, Tepa and of course Jalos.

I’m researching the decendents of Franciscos Gtz de Hermosillo (Rubio) and
Juana de Lomelin. This is my father direct paternal line. Not sure if you
are researching this same line. If you are, I have a lot detail information
on this family that I can share.

Sergio Gutierrez de Hermosillo y Martin del Campo

I descend from this line but I have him using a different name. I have him as using Francisco Gutierrez Rubio. I know his mom is Leonor hermosillo but he used his father’s last name according to my records.
Francisco and leonor are my 8th grandparents 5 times and my 9th grparents 10 times my 10th grparents 9 times my 11th grparents 2 times
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry

—–Original Message—–
From: “Susan and Joe Cadena”
Date: Thu, 13 May 2010 21:15:03
To: ;
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Hacienda El Salto Grande

Sergio,

I returned the book to my library on Tuesday, so Occidental should have it
back any day now. I am happy to hear of someone else’s interest in El Salto
– and the line of Francisco Gtz de Hermosillo and Juana Lomelin. Francisco
is also in my husband’s direct paternal line, and we are most interested in
sharing research results!

Susan Cadena

—–Original Message—–
From: general-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
[mailto:general-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org] On Behalf Of
xalos68@hotmail.com
Sent: Thursday, May 13, 2010 8:30 PM
To: general@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Hacienda El Salto Grande

It’s interesting that you are looking for the same hacienda “El Salto
Grande” that I been researching but have not found definitive inforamation
on it. I was planning on visiting Occindential last weekend but saw that the
book was checked out. I guess you have it.

It’s unfortunate that you were not able to find information on it. My cousin
who lives in Jalostotitlan, married a lady from Tepatitlan. He told the the
Hacienda is located about 5 leguas de Tepatitlan, which is about 20km. He
heard the hacienda lies between Tepa and Yahualica. If you do a google map
on the area, the road to Yahualica, you will find a Ranch called El Salto.
It might be were the hacienda was once located. This summer I plan to rent a
car and visit some to the cities my ancestors lived, Ocotlan, Mexticacan,
Cuquio, Tepa and of course Jalos.

I’m researching the decendents of Franciscos Gtz de Hermosillo (Rubio) and
Juana de Lomelin. This is my father direct paternal line. Not sure if you
are researching this same line. If you are, I have a lot detail information
on this family that I can share.

Sergio Gutierrez de Hermosillo y Martin del Campo

Francisco appears as Gutierrez Rubio in his death certificate but also appears as Gutierrez de Hermosillo in his son’s (Lazaro) marriage certificate (Ines de la Mora y Samora)in Ocotlan 1684. I prefer to use Gtz de Hermosillo so that he is not confused with his father’s (Miguel) brother Francisco Gtz Rubio.

Sergio Gutierrez

There are a lot more francisco gutierrez de hermosillo in my records so I am going to leave him as I have him. It is important for people studying or ancestors that they went by more than one name, sometimes 3 or 4. When they went by 3 or 4 it was most likely a woman.
——Original Message——
From: xalos68@hotmail.com
Sender: general-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
To: general@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
ReplyTo: general@nuestrosranchos.org
ReplyTo: xalos68@hotmail.com
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Hacienda El Salto Grande
Sent: May 14, 2010 12:17 PM

Francisco appears as Gutierrez Rubio in his death certificate but also appears as Gutierrez de Hermosillo in his son’s (Lazaro) marriage certificate (Ines de la Mora y Samora)in Ocotlan 1684. I prefer to use Gtz de Hermosillo so that he is not confused with his father’s (Miguel) brother Francisco Gtz Rubio.

Sergio Gutierrez

This Francisco I was named after his grandfather so even if his parents combined Gutierrez de Hermosillo, Francisco used his grandfather’s original name Gutierrez Rubio. But even hisgrandfather used to names : Francisco Gutierrez Rubio and Francisco Gutierrez de la Vega.
Daniel

> To: general@nuestrosranchos.org
> From: mygenes2000@yahoo.com
> Date: Fri, 14 May 2010 18:43:22 +0000
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Hacienda El Salto Grande
>
> I descend from this line but I have him using a different name. I have him as using Francisco Gutierrez Rubio. I know his mom is Leonor hermosillo but he used his father’s last name according to my records.
> Francisco and leonor are my 8th grandparents 5 times and my 9th grparents 10 times my 10th grparents 9 times my 11th grparents 2 times
> Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
>
> —–Original Message—–
> From: “Susan and Joe Cadena”
> Date: Thu, 13 May 2010 21:15:03
> To: ;
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Hacienda El Salto Grande
>
> Sergio,
>
> I returned the book to my library on Tuesday, so Occidental should have it
> back any day now. I am happy to hear of someone else’s interest in El Salto
> – and the line of Francisco Gtz de Hermosillo and Juana Lomelin. Francisco
> is also in my husband’s direct paternal line, and we are most interested in
> sharing research results!
>
> Susan Cadena
>
> —–Original Message—–
> From: general-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
> [mailto:general-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org] On Behalf Of
> xalos68@hotmail.com
> Sent: Thursday, May 13, 2010 8:30 PM
> To: general@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
> Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Hacienda El Salto Grande
>
> It’s interesting that you are looking for the same hacienda “El Salto
> Grande” that I been researching but have not found definitive inforamation
> on it. I was planning on visiting Occindential last weekend but saw that the
> book was checked out. I guess you have it.
>
> It’s unfortunate that you were not able to find information on it. My cousin
> who lives in Jalostotitlan, married a lady from Tepatitlan. He told the the
> Hacienda is located about 5 leguas de Tepatitlan, which is about 20km. He
> heard the hacienda lies between Tepa and Yahualica. If you do a google map
> on the area, the road to Yahualica, you will find a Ranch called El Salto.
> It might be were the hacienda was once located. This summer I plan to rent a
> car and visit some to the cities my ancestors lived, Ocotlan, Mexticacan,
> Cuquio, Tepa and of course Jalos.
>
> I’m researching the decendents of Franciscos Gtz de Hermosillo (Rubio) and
> Juana de Lomelin. This is my father direct paternal line. Not sure if you
> are researching this same line. If you are, I have a lot detail information
> on this family that I can share.
>
> Sergio Gutierrez de Hermosillo y Martin del Campo

Is there actual documentation proving that Francisco Gtz Rubio (de la Vega) was Francisco (Juana de Lomelin’s Husband) Gtz Rubio’s (de Hermosillo)grandfather. I know this information is given in the Retoños book and in other books as well, but is there actual documentation, such as a will, marriage, baptism or death record proving the relationship?

I know that Francisco Gtz Rubio (de Hermosillo) was the son of Miguel Gtz Rubio and Leonor de Hermosillo because this information is provided by Leonor’s will/death certificate.

I know that Miguel was the grandson of Diego Gonzalez and Maria Rubio, because that information appears in the entries of the cofradia de la animas of jalos (1628).

My question is how do we know Francisco (El Viejo or I) Gtz Rubio was Miguel’s father and Francisco Gtz Rubio’s (de Hermosillo) grandfather. I know that the Retoños book (and other books that quote Retoños) says that this is true but is there an actual document, such a will, death or baptism record proving this relationship?

This is one of my brick walls.

Hopefully someone can provide answer to my question.

Sergio Gutierrez de Hermosillo

Check Jaime holcombes work. I believe that he provided documentation.
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry

—–Original Message—–
From: xalos68@hotmail.com
Date: Sat, 15 May 2010 21:09:40
To:
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Hacienda El Salto Grande

Is there actual documentation proving that Francisco Gtz Rubio (de la Vega) was Francisco (Juana de Lomelin’s Husband) Gtz Rubio’s (de Hermosillo)grandfather. I know this information is given in the Retoños book and in other books as well, but is there actual documentation, such as a will, marriage, baptism or death record proving the relationship?

I know that Francisco Gtz Rubio (de Hermosillo) was the son of Miguel Gtz Rubio and Leonor de Hermosillo because this information is provided by Leonor’s will/death certificate.

I know that Miguel was the grandson of Diego Gonzalez and Maria Rubio, because that information appears in the entries of the cofradia de la animas of jalos (1628).

My question is how do we know Francisco (El Viejo or I) Gtz Rubio was Miguel’s father and Francisco Gtz Rubio’s (de Hermosillo) grandfather. I know that the Retoños book (and other books that quote Retoños) says that this is true but is there an actual document, such a will, death or baptism record proving this relationship?

This is one of my brick walls.

Hopefully someone can provide answer to my question.

Sergio Gutierrez de Hermosillo

Luisa flores rubin es la esposa de andres estrada bocanegra. Luisa es hija de de Pedro Alvarez y Ana Flores De La Torre (AKA Ana Flores Rubi). Ana Flores de La Torre is hija de Diego Flores de La Torre y Angela de Figueroa
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry

—–Original Message—–
From: Daniel Mendez de Camino
Date: Sat, 15 May 2010 09:10:48
To:
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Hacienda El Salto Grande

This Francisco I was named after his grandfather so even if his parents combined Gutierrez de Hermosillo, Francisco used his grandfather’s original name Gutierrez Rubio. But even hisgrandfather used to names : Francisco Gutierrez Rubio and Francisco Gutierrez de la Vega.
Daniel

> To: general@nuestrosranchos.org
> From: mygenes2000@yahoo.com
> Date: Fri, 14 May 2010 18:43:22 +0000
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Hacienda El Salto Grande
>
> I descend from this line but I have him using a different name. I have him as using Francisco Gutierrez Rubio. I know his mom is Leonor hermosillo but he used his father’s last name according to my records.
> Francisco and leonor are my 8th grandparents 5 times and my 9th grparents 10 times my 10th grparents 9 times my 11th grparents 2 times
> Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
>
> —–Original Message—–
> From: “Susan and Joe Cadena”
> Date: Thu, 13 May 2010 21:15:03
> To: ;
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Hacienda El Salto Grande
>
> Sergio,
>
> I returned the book to my library on Tuesday, so Occidental should have it
> back any day now. I am happy to hear of someone else’s interest in El Salto
> – and the line of Francisco Gtz de Hermosillo and Juana Lomelin. Francisco
> is also in my husband’s direct paternal line, and we are most interested in
> sharing research results!
>
> Susan Cadena
>
> —–Original Message—–
> From: general-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
> [mailto:general-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org] On Behalf Of
> xalos68@hotmail.com
> Sent: Thursday, May 13, 2010 8:30 PM
> To: general@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
> Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Hacienda El Salto Grande
>
> It’s interesting that you are looking for the same hacienda “El Salto
> Grande” that I been researching but have not found definitive inforamation
> on it. I was planning on visiting Occindential last weekend but saw that the
> book was checked out. I guess you have it.
>
> It’s unfortunate that you were not able to find information on it. My cousin
> who lives in Jalostotitlan, married a lady from Tepatitlan. He told the the
> Hacienda is located about 5 leguas de Tepatitlan, which is about 20km. He
> heard the hacienda lies between Tepa and Yahualica. If you do a google map
> on the area, the road to Yahualica, you will find a Ranch called El Salto.
> It might be were the hacienda was once located. This summer I plan to rent a
> car and visit some to the cities my ancestors lived, Ocotlan, Mexticacan,
> Cuquio, Tepa and of course Jalos.
>
> I’m researching the decendents of Franciscos Gtz de Hermosillo (Rubio) and
> Juana de Lomelin. This is my father direct paternal line. Not sure if you
> are researching this same line. If you are, I have a lot detail information
> on this family that I can share.
>
> Sergio Gutierrez de Hermosillo y Martin del Campo

Tengo sospecho que este PEdro Alvarez era pariente de los Alvarez de Sandi y los Alvarez Tostado.Ya que era originario de Teocaltiche, y hay unos fuentes que da la senda a esta conexcion.
Daniel

To learn more about the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saintsplease visit www.mormon.org

> To: general@nuestrosranchos.org
> From: mygenes2000@yahoo.com
> Date: Sun, 16 May 2010 06:51:26 +0000
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Luisa Flores Rubi
>
> Luisa flores rubin es la esposa de andres estrada bocanegra. Luisa es hija de de Pedro Alvarez y Ana Flores De La Torre (AKA Ana Flores Rubi). Ana Flores de La Torre is hija de Diego Flores de La Torre y Angela de Figueroa
> Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
>
> —–Original Message—–
> From: Daniel Mendez de Camino
> Date: Sat, 15 May 2010 09:10:48
> To:
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Hacienda El Salto Grande
>
>
> This Francisco I was named after his grandfather so even if his parents combined Gutierrez de Hermosillo, Francisco used his grandfather’s original name Gutierrez Rubio. But even hisgrandfather used to names : Francisco Gutierrez Rubio and Francisco Gutierrez de la Vega.
> Daniel
>
>
>> To: general@nuestrosranchos.org
>> From: mygenes2000@yahoo.com
>> Date: Fri, 14 May 2010 18:43:22 +0000
>> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Hacienda El Salto Grande
>>
>> I descend from this line but I have him using a different name. I have him as using Francisco Gutierrez Rubio. I know his mom is Leonor hermosillo but he used his father’s last name according to my records.
>> Francisco and leonor are my 8th grandparents 5 times and my 9th grparents 10 times my 10th grparents 9 times my 11th grparents 2 times
>> Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
>>
>> —–Original Message—–
>> From: “Susan and Joe Cadena”
>> Date: Thu, 13 May 2010 21:15:03
>> To: ;
>> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Hacienda El Salto Grande
>>
>> Sergio,
>>
>> I returned the book to my library on Tuesday, so Occidental should have it
>> back any day now. I am happy to hear of someone else’s interest in El Salto
>> – and the line of Francisco Gtz de Hermosillo and Juana Lomelin. Francisco
>> is also in my husband’s direct paternal line, and we are most interested in
>> sharing research results!
>>
>> Susan Cadena
>>
>> —–Original Message—–
>> From: general-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
>> [mailto:general-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org] On Behalf Of
>> xalos68@hotmail.com
>> Sent: Thursday, May 13, 2010 8:30 PM
>> To: general@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
>> Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Hacienda El Salto Grande
>>
>> It’s interesting that you are looking for the same hacienda “El Salto
>> Grande” that I been researching but have not found definitive inforamation
>> on it. I was planning on visiting Occindential last weekend but saw that the
>> book was checked out. I guess you have it.
>>
>> It’s unfortunate that you were not able to find information on it. My cousin
>> who lives in Jalostotitlan, married a lady from Tepatitlan. He told the the
>> Hacienda is located about 5 leguas de Tepatitlan, which is about 20km. He
>> heard the hacienda lies between Tepa and Yahualica. If you do a google map
>> on the area, the road to Yahualica, you will find a Ranch called El Salto.
>> It might be were the hacienda was once located. This summer I plan to rent a
>> car and visit some to the cities my ancestors lived, Ocotlan, Mexticacan,
>> Cuquio, Tepa and of course Jalos.
>>
>> I’m researching the decendents of Franciscos Gtz de Hermosillo (Rubio) and
>> Juana de Lomelin. This is my father direct paternal line. Not sure if you
>> are researching this same line. If you are, I have a lot detail information
>> on this family that I can share.
>>
>> Sergio Gutierrez de Hermosillo y Martin del Campo