I am talking about the 150 years before coming to the americas
——Original Message——
From: Daniel Mendez de Camino y Soto
Sender: general-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
To: general@nuestrosranchos.org
ReplyTo: general@nuestrosranchos.org
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Royal blood
Sent: Nov 28, 2009 4:57 PM
Which 150 years are you talking about? I know even today as we speak altenos still intermarry far close then they did
during the colony. Our gene pool is so small now we all have basically the same DNA and similar charateristics, I have 3rd
cousins that alomst are idential to me!
-Daniel
> To: general@nuestrosranchos.org
> From: mygenes2000@yahoo.com
> Date: Sun, 29 Nov 2009 00:34:16 +0000
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Royal blood
>
> What you said about them all intermarrying the first 100 years is true but what I have found in my research is that many of them had already intermarried many times over the previous 150 years
_________________________________________________________________
Hotmail: Trusted email with Microsoft’s powerful SPAM protection.
http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/177141664/direct/01/
http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/177141664/direct/01/
oh yeah most Spaniards were already related through royal lines and such.
_________________________________________________________________
Windows 7: I wanted simpler, now it’s simpler. I’m a rock star.
http://www.microsoft.com/Windows/windows-7/default.aspx?h=myidea?ocid=PID24727::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-US:WWL_WIN_myidea:112009
Alteños intermerried for 300 years y lo sigue haciendo !
Ruben Casillas M.
— El sáb 28-nov-09, Daniel Mendez de Camino y Soto escribió:
De:: Daniel Mendez de Camino y Soto
Asunto: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Royal blood
A: general@nuestrosranchos.org
Fecha: sábado 28 de noviembre de 2009, 16:40
Not sure…I could legally and socially say all altenos are hidalgos by birth.
And since all of the altenos intermarried within 100 years everyone was
already related on the meseta, Aguascalientes, parts of Zac , Gto, Mich,
and SLP. Go figure!
Regards,
Daniel
_________________________________________________________________
Windows 7: It works the way you want. Learn more.
http://www.microsoft.com/Windows/windows-7/default.aspx?ocid=PID24727::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-US:WWL_WIN_evergreen:112009v2
Hola ruben
Los altenos intermarried for 150 years before becoming altenos and doing it all over again for 300
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
—–Original Message—–
From: ruben casillas moreno
Date: Sun, 29 Nov 2009 16:15:46
To:
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Royal blood
Alteños intermerried for 300 years y lo sigue haciendo !
Ruben Casillas M.
— El sáb 28-nov-09, Daniel Mendez de Camino y Soto escribió:
De:: Daniel Mendez de Camino y Soto
Asunto: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Royal blood
A: general@nuestrosranchos.org
Fecha: sábado 28 de noviembre de 2009, 16:40
Not sure…I could legally and socially say all altenos are hidalgos by birth.
And since all of the altenos intermarried within 100 years everyone was
already related on the meseta, Aguascalientes, parts of Zac , Gto, Mich,
and SLP. Go figure!
Regards,
Daniel
_________________________________________________________________
Windows 7: It works the way you want. Learn more.
http://www.microsoft.com/Windows/windows-7/default.aspx?ocid=PID24727::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-US:WWL_WIN_evergreen:112009v2
Tienes razón, you are right !!!!!!!
Ruben Casillas M.
— El dom 29-nov-09, mygenes2000@yahoo.com escribió:
De:: mygenes2000@yahoo.com
Asunto: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Royal blood
A: general@nuestrosranchos.org
Fecha: domingo 29 de noviembre de 2009, 18:40
Hola ruben
Los altenos intermarried for 150 years before becoming altenos and doing it all over again for 300
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
—–Original Message—–
From: ruben casillas moreno
Date: Sun, 29 Nov 2009 16:15:46
To:
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Royal blood
Alteños intermerried for 300 years y lo sigue haciendo !
Ruben Casillas M.
— El sáb 28-nov-09, Daniel Mendez de Camino y Soto escribió:
De:: Daniel Mendez de Camino y Soto
Asunto: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Royal blood
A: general@nuestrosranchos.org
Fecha: sábado 28 de noviembre de 2009, 16:40
Not sure…I could legally and socially say all altenos are hidalgos by birth.
And since all of the altenos intermarried within 100 years everyone was
already related on the meseta, Aguascalientes, parts of Zac , Gto, Mich,
and SLP. Go figure!
Regards,
Daniel
_________________________________________________________________
Windows 7: It works the way you want. Learn more.
http://www.microsoft.com/Windows/windows-7/default.aspx?ocid=PID24727::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-US:WWL_WIN_evergreen:112009v2
Como dice el dicho: a la prima, se le arrima! (mexican slang)
—–Mensaje original—–
De: general-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
[mailto:general-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org] En nombre de ruben
casillas moreno
Enviado el: Sunday, November 29, 2009 6:57 PM
Para: general@nuestrosranchos.org; mygenes2000@yahoo.com
Asunto: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Royal blood
Tienes razón, you are right !!!!!!!
Ruben Casillas M.
— El dom 29-nov-09, mygenes2000@yahoo.com
escribió:
De:: mygenes2000@yahoo.com
Asunto: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Royal blood
A: general@nuestrosranchos.org
Fecha: domingo 29 de noviembre de 2009, 18:40
Hola ruben
Los altenos intermarried for 150 years before becoming altenos and doing it
all over again for 300
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
—–Original Message—–
From: ruben casillas moreno
Date: Sun, 29 Nov 2009 16:15:46
To:
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Royal blood
Alteños intermerried for 300 years y lo sigue haciendo !
Ruben Casillas M.
— El sáb 28-nov-09, Daniel Mendez de Camino y Soto
escribió:
De:: Daniel Mendez de Camino y Soto
Asunto: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Royal blood
A: general@nuestrosranchos.org
Fecha: sábado 28 de noviembre de 2009, 16:40
Not sure…I could legally and socially say all altenos are hidalgos by
birth.
And since all of the altenos intermarried within 100 years everyone was
already related on the meseta, Aguascalientes, parts of Zac , Gto, Mich,
and SLP. Go figure!
Regards,
Daniel
_________________________________________________________________
Windows 7: It works the way you want. Learn more.
http://www.microsoft.com/Windows/windows-7/default.aspx?ocid=PID24727::T:WLM
TAGL:ON:WL:en-US:WWL_WIN_evergreen:112009v2
La prima es para que se exprima!!!
J. Gonzalez
—– Original Message —–
From: “Rick Rodriguez”
To:
Sent: Sunday, November 29, 2009 17:29
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Royal blood
Como dice el dicho: a la prima, se le arrima! (mexican slang)
—–Mensaje original—–
De: general-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
[mailto:general-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org] En nombre de ruben
casillas moreno
Enviado el: Sunday, November 29, 2009 6:57 PM
Para: general@nuestrosranchos.org; mygenes2000@yahoo.com
Asunto: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Royal blood
Tienes razón, you are right !!!!!!!
Ruben Casillas M.
— El dom 29-nov-09, mygenes2000@yahoo.com
escribió:
De:: mygenes2000@yahoo.com
Asunto: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Royal blood
A: general@nuestrosranchos.org
Fecha: domingo 29 de noviembre de 2009, 18:40
Hola ruben
Los altenos intermarried for 150 years before becoming altenos and doing it
all over again for 300
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
—–Original Message—–
From: ruben casillas moreno
Date: Sun, 29 Nov 2009 16:15:46
To:
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Royal blood
Alteños intermerried for 300 years y lo sigue haciendo !
Ruben Casillas M.
— El sáb 28-nov-09, Daniel Mendez de Camino y Soto
escribió:
De:: Daniel Mendez de Camino y Soto
Asunto: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Royal blood
A: general@nuestrosranchos.org
Fecha: sábado 28 de noviembre de 2009, 16:40
Not sure…I could legally and socially say all altenos are hidalgos by
birth.
And since all of the altenos intermarried within 100 years everyone was
already related on the meseta, Aguascalientes, parts of Zac , Gto, Mich,
and SLP. Go figure!
Regards,
Daniel
_________________________________________________________________
Windows 7: It works the way you want. Learn more.
http://www.microsoft.com/Windows/windows-7/default.aspx?ocid=PID24727::T:WLM
TAGL:ON:WL:en-US:WWL_WIN_evergreen:112009v2
Daniel;
I recommend you the studies of don Vicente de Cadenas y Vicent about what hidalguía and nobility is. Nobility is always proved first by the paternal line -línea agnada-. (Until today, tomorrow who knows?).
For an alteño -and anyone- to be considered noble they had to prove that their paternal lineage was indeed noble, either by having the three positive acts or by having an ejecutoria de hidalguía. Most of the Padillas are nobles because they have the three positive acts and their common ancestor, don Hernando de Padilla-Dávila y Pérez de Gallegos was a knight of Santiago -to become a knight of that order they had to prove that their 4 last names were noble (Padilla, Pérez de Gallegos, Dávila and Vera)-. Some other alteño families were hidalgos such as the de Anda-Altamirano, Rentería, López de Lara, Lozano, etc.
I am also curious about the Anda y Altamirano family, where have you found that they are descendants of the Gutiérrez de Altamirano y Castilla of Mexico City?
About the Royal Blood, I agree, one thing is to be a descendant of a king and another thing is to belong to a royal lineage (Trastámara, de la Cerda, Moctezuma, Borbón, Habsburg, etc.)
Best,
I have read work by don Vicente, who died some years ago. I was able to communicate with don Vicente’s partner, Marques de (I honestly forgot his name right now!) I found out some time ago my ancestor Juan Perez de Camino received a coat of arms
in return for his service en la conquista. I do have a copy of that document. From what I found out no one has claimed these arms and wonder how ‘they were lost’ the family probably never paid the fee, who knows. I was told when I turn 21 I can apply to claim these arms as my own. I just need to proof verification with appropriate documents for each generation back to Juan de Camino (which I told him, no problem!; pays off scanning all documents), since these are Spanish arms they can descend maternally. I have not heard of three positives, I have heard and according to don Mariano Gonzalez leal most altenos had an ejectoria de hidalguia.
I also descend from the Padillas.
It is my understanding all the Mendoza branches were hidalgos as well (ie Gutierrez de Mendoza, Ramirez de Mendoza…)
It all started with seeing various people in Los Altos use the name Altamirano de Castilla!
I asked myself they must be related. Im still iffy on some dates but hope to write and appendix on
this family and my findings.
-Daniel
_________________________________________________________________
Bing brings you maps, menus, and reviews organized in one place.
http://www.bing.com/search?q=restaurants&form=MFESRP&publ=WLHMTAG&crea=TEXT_MFESRP_Local_MapsMenu_Resturants_1x1
Daniel, perhaps the Marquis de la Floresta. Mariano is right, some of them had ejecutorias and coat of arms -just nobles had the right to bear them- but there are some of them still to be found. About the Mendozas, it is still needed to find the ancestors of the Hurtado de Mendoza line and document it so that we may know to which line they belong to. It is probable that they were nobles; on a dinner I had with Mariano we talked a bit about these Mendoza’s, there are some blank spaces to be filled so that we can trace it back to the ancient line of the Lords of Mendoza.
The description of three positive acts can be found also in the literature of Menéndez-Pidal.
Regards,
How sexists! Y el primo que?
Just kidding guys. Saludos!
Gracias de la endogamia!
Re: “I personally dont think, us altenos ‘are’ royalty; our ancestors were so we do have the blood. Today were are just descendants of the aristocracy that once (some might argue oligarchy) ruled Mejico.”
I am not sure how to take this whole thread. I read it and the only thing that comes to mind is the saying about the potato: the best part is underground. I prefer not being from royalty and thinking that many of us are the best part, and it doesn’t really matter what is underground (the good, the bad, and the ugly). We can not chose the wombs we are born in. Having said this, genealogy is a fascinating topic.
Ed
I’d like add my two cents worth about ” Royal blood”. The vast majority of
the “nobles’ that settled in Mexico were *hidalgos *or* escuderos*. Hidalgo
was a class of lower nobility given very freely in Spain as there were no
lands attached to it or exemptions expected. Most were descendants of a
titled person who did not inherit the title, an example is every son who was
not the first born. Escudero was give for a military acheivment. To say
these people were *royal *, with the blood of kings and Queens is a stretch.
An excellent picture of what it meant to be a Spanish Hidalgo is found in
the book ; *A Nation of Shepards* by Daniel Lucero. It describes the journey
of Francisco Robledo from Spain to Mexico, then as part of the Onate
expedition to settle Santa Fe around 1600.
If you ask any middle or upper class person in Mexico about their family
origin, most will tell you their grandfather or his father came from Spain.
Then they will tell you that they are of noble birth. Almost all really have
no idea when or where that occured. It’s a mass delusion that’s become
ingrained in the national character.
Eric Robledo Edgar
>
> Nuestros Ranchos General Mailing List
>
> To post, send email to:
> general(at)nuestrosranchos.org
>
> To change your subscription, log on to:
> http://www.nuestrosranchos.org
>
Dear Eric;
There were exemptions and privileges for the hidalgos, please check the Pleitos de Hidalguía in las Chancillerías, that theme has been largely studied. Hidalgos did not have to pay the taxes that the pecheros did, they had the right of the use of coats of arms, privileges of certain positions in the government: Captains, Mayors, etc.
For a better understanding of what an hidalgo is, I recommend you “Cuadernos de Doctrina Nobiliaria” by Vicente de Cadenas, I am sure you will like it.
What you say also happens in the US and the rest of the world, I have read of many people that believe they are nobility just because some ancestor was a noble in the XIV C.
On the rest of your comment I agree, royal is to belong to a royal lineage.
Finally, if you want to read which families belonged to the titled nobility in México there is “Estudios Genealógicos” by Ortega y Pérez-Gallardo.
Best regards,
