Yes, I can relate to this, I once asked my tios in Mejico, where their ancestors came from

they said Spain, Portugal and France. Which did prove to be right but they said their grandfather

which in reality it was a distant ancestor but the lineage was right of course.

I think they really just mean they are Spanish Mexican, probably

not necessarily there grandfather was born in Spain. I have noticied

(I lived in Mexico for a year) the more European blood you have

people respect you? Not sure what Im trying to describe. 🙁

-Daniel

_________________________________________________________________
Chat with Messenger straight from your Hotmail inbox.
http://www.microsoft.com/windows/windowslive/hotmail_bl1/hotmail_bl1.aspx?ocid=PID23879::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-ww:WM_IMHM_4:092009

Thank you for the recommendation, I’ll look out for it.

On Wed, Dec 2, 2009 at 6:22 PM, wrote:

> Dear Eric;
>
> There were exemptions and privileges for the hidalgos, please check the
> Pleitos de Hidalguía in las Chancillerías, that theme has been largely
> studied. Hidalgos did not have to pay the taxes that the pecheros did, they
> had the right of the use of coats of arms, privileges of certain positions
> in the government: Captains, Mayors, etc.
> For a better understanding of what an hidalgo is, I recommend you
> “Cuadernos de Doctrina Nobiliaria” by Vicente de Cadenas, I am sure you will
> like it.
>
> What you say also happens in the US and the rest of the world, I have read
> of many Smiths that believe they are nobility just because some ancestor was
> a noble in the XIV C.
> On the rest of your comment I agree, royal is to belong to a royal lineage.
>
> Best regards,
>
>

Both of my Mexican families believed they were of Spanish descent. The
Callejas fiercly claimed to be descended from the last Viceroy, Felix Maria
Calleja. My grandmother often told
us how her family in Oaxaca had his uniform as a treasured relic and they
were forced to leave it behind during revolution. Not to be disrespectful, I
never asked how we were related.

As I started collecting the vital records, it became clear it was not true.
My father was dismayed I would spend such energy to disprove his heritage. I
was actually trying to prove it , but

found otherwise. The trail ends in Sola de Vega , Oaxaca with an exposto
child adopted by the local hacendado around 1700. Maybe no Spanish blood at
all. The maternal part,

Zamora, was from Miahuatlan, Oaxaca, and involves a priest who seems to have
changed his mind about a career.

The Robledo’s were less concerned with royalty, but much more with the
Castilian origin. My last document for that family listed a Don Jose Maria
Robledo, *Espanoles*, *Caballero.*
**
With no paper to follow, I had a Y DNA test since this was my paternal
line. The results were for Haplogroup O, south asian,not native
American, closest matches in the Phillipines.

Again no Spanish blood, but I think a much more interesting story. The
ancestor likely sailed in on a Manila Galleon, he or his descendants made
good and somewere along were

accepted as Spanish. If I had found this out when my father was still
around I know he would have been furious and claimed some kind of
conspiracy. Maybe dis-owned me. There are

still a few of his cousins in Mexico that I won’t tell. Around 1900, most of
that generation married into American and English families that were
working in mining, oil and railroads. Today,

the surviving elders will still celebrate their Spanish heritage first
. I think it’s funny that people choose to place less importance on what
they are, than on what they might be. ( Or not be)

Eric Robledo Edgar
*

*
On Wed, Dec 2, 2009 at 9:41 PM, Daniel Mendez de Camino y Soto wrote:

>
> Yes, I can relate to this, I once asked my tios in Mejico, where their
> ancestors came from
>
> they said Spain, Portugal and France. Which did prove to be right but they
> said their grandfather
>
> which in reality it was a distant ancestor but the lineage was right of
> course.
>
>
> I think they really just mean they are Spanish Mexican, probably
>
> not necessarily there grandfather was born in Spain. I have noticied
>
> (I lived in Mexico for a year) the more European blood you have
>
> people respect you? Not sure what Im trying to describe. 🙁
>
>
>
> -Daniel
>
>
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Chat with Messenger straight from your Hotmail inbox.
>
> http://www.microsoft.com/windows/windowslive/hotmail_bl1/hotmail_bl1.aspx?ocid=PID23879::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-ww:WM_IMHM_4:092009

This is cool my R1b (Y-DNA) and my mtDNA is also R1b. Mostly found on western and central

Europe. I think genetics is fascinating!!!!!

-Daniel

_________________________________________________________________
Windows Live Hotmail gives you a free,exclusive gift.
http://www.microsoft.com/windows/windowslive/hotmail_bl1/hotmail_bl1.aspx?ocid=PID23879::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-ww:WM_IMHM_7:092009

Eric,

I read your posting and while reading was continously nodding my head.

I can’t tell you how often in talking to people from Mexico, they claim to be of Spanish or French Ancestry, never a mention of their Mexican or native American heritage. I find it sad that we celebrate what we don’t know and don’t celebrate what we do know, delude ourselves with the wishful thinking rather than with the reality, whatever that reality may be.

Thanks for your postings……I have enjoyed your commentaries and wisdoms.

Alicia,
San Jose, Calif

________________________________
From: eric edgar
To: general@nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Wed, December 2, 2009 11:13:21 PM
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Royal Blood

Both of my Mexican families believed they were of Spanish descent. The
Callejas fiercly claimed to be descended from the last Viceroy, Felix Maria
Calleja. My grandmother often told
us how her family in Oaxaca had his uniform as a treasured relic and they
were forced to leave it behind during revolution. Not to be disrespectful, I
never asked how we were related.

As I started collecting the vital records, it became clear it was not true.
My father was dismayed I would spend such energy to disprove his heritage. I
was actually trying to prove it , but

  found otherwise. The trail ends  in Sola de Vega , Oaxaca with an exposto
child adopted by the local hacendado around 1700. Maybe no Spanish blood at
all. The maternal part,

Zamora, was from Miahuatlan, Oaxaca, and involves a priest who seems to have
changed his mind about a career.

The Robledo’s were less concerned with royalty, but much more with the
Castilian origin. My last document for that family listed a Don Jose Maria
Robledo, *Espanoles*, *Caballero.*
**
With no paper to follow,  I had a Y DNA test since this was my paternal
line. The results were for Haplogroup O,  south asian,not native
American, closest matches in the Phillipines.

Again no Spanish blood, but I think a much more interesting story. The
ancestor likely sailed in on a Manila Galleon, he or his descendants made
good and somewere along were

accepted as Spanish.  If I had found this out when my father was still
around I know he would have been furious and claimed some kind of
conspiracy. Maybe dis-owned me. There are

still a few of his cousins in Mexico that I won’t tell. Around 1900, most of
that generation married into American and English families that were
working in  mining, oil and railroads. Today,

the surviving elders will still celebrate their Spanish heritage first
. I think it’s funny that people choose to place less importance on what
they are, than on what they might be.  ( Or not be)

Eric Robledo Edgar
*

*
On Wed, Dec 2, 2009 at 9:41 PM, Daniel Mendez de Camino y Soto wrote:

>
> Yes, I can relate to this, I once asked my tios in Mejico, where their
> ancestors came from
>
> they said Spain, Portugal and France. Which did prove to be right but they
> said their grandfather
>
> which in reality it was a distant ancestor but the lineage was right of
> course.
>
>
> I think they really just mean they are Spanish Mexican, probably
>
> not necessarily there grandfather was born in Spain. I have noticied
>
> (I lived in Mexico for a year) the more European blood you have
>
> people respect you? Not sure what Im trying to describe. 🙁
>
>
>
> -Daniel
>
>
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Chat with Messenger straight from your Hotmail inbox.
>
> http://www.microsoft.com/windows/windowslive/hotmail_bl1/hotmail_bl1.aspx?ocid=PID23879::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-ww:WM_IMHM_4:092009

Daniel,

Are you saying that your YDNA and your mtDNA is R1b?

My biological brother’s son tested out R1b1b2, and my mtDNA test results placed me in the H1 Haplogroup.

I didn’t think the R1b applied to mtDNA?

Pat Silva Corbera
Tracy, CA

—– Original Message —–
From: “Daniel Mendez de Camino y Soto”
To: general@nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Thursday, December 3, 2009 12:37:21 AM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Royal Blood

This is cool my R1b (Y-DNA) and my mtDNA is also R1b. Mostly found on western and central

Europe. I think genetics is fascinating!!!!!

-Daniel

_________________________________________________________________
Windows Live Hotmail gives you a free,exclusive gift.
http://www.microsoft.com/windows/windowslive/hotmail_bl1/hotmail_bl1.aspx?ocid=PID23879::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-ww:WM_IMHM_7:092009

Well, in my blood the only “royalty” that runs thru it is that of Crown Royal. Just kiddin, but on a serious matter, I was reading the beginning of this thread as it pertained to Sephardic ancestory and I wanted to comment that my wife’s family is from Northern Nuevo Leon and their customs, food, and spanish is oddly different from my parents’ family from Zacatecas and SLP. As soon as I finish my geneaology I will begin hers -J. Antonio Camacho

I guess i meant my YDNA!

> Date: Thu, 3 Dec 2009 18:06:38 +0000
> From: PatriciaCorbera@comcast.net
> To: general@nuestrosranchos.org
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Royal Blood
>
> Daniel,
>
> Are you saying that your YDNA and your mtDNA is R1b?
>
> My biological brother’s son tested out R1b1b2, and my mtDNA test results placed me in the H1 Haplogroup.
>
> I didn’t think the R1b applied to mtDNA?
>
> Pat Silva Corbera
> Tracy, CA
>
>
>
> —– Original Message —–
> From: “Daniel Mendez de Camino y Soto”
> To: general@nuestrosranchos.org
> Sent: Thursday, December 3, 2009 12:37:21 AM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Royal Blood
>
>
> This is cool my R1b (Y-DNA) and my mtDNA is also R1b. Mostly found on western and central
>
> Europe. I think genetics is fascinating!!!!!
>
>
> -Daniel
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Windows Live Hotmail gives you a free,exclusive gift.
> http://www.microsoft.com/windows/windowslive/hotmail_bl1/hotmail_bl1.aspx?ocid=PID23879::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-ww:WM_IMHM_7:092009

Thank you Daniel…what is your mtDNA?
Pat
—– Original Message —–
From: “Daniel Mendez de Camino y Soto”
To: general@nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Thursday, December 3, 2009 11:21:40 AM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Royal Blood

I guess i meant my YDNA!

> Date: Thu, 3 Dec 2009 18:06:38 +0000
> From: PatriciaCorbera@comcast.net
> To: general@nuestrosranchos.org
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Royal Blood
>
> Daniel,
>
> Are you saying that your YDNA and your mtDNA is R1b?
>
> My biological brother’s son tested out R1b1b2, and my mtDNA test results placed me in the H1 Haplogroup.
>
> I didn’t think the R1b applied to mtDNA?
>
> Pat Silva Corbera
> Tracy, CA
>
>
>
> —– Original Message —–
> From: “Daniel Mendez de Camino y Soto”
> To: general@nuestrosranchos.org
> Sent: Thursday, December 3, 2009 12:37:21 AM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Royal Blood
>
>
> This is cool my R1b (Y-DNA) and my mtDNA is also R1b. Mostly found on western and central
>
> Europe. I think genetics is fascinating!!!!!
>
>
> -Daniel
>
>

Like Alicia I related to Eric’s commentary.  I would personally love to find exactly what tribes we descend from in both my maternal and paternal line but that isn’t possible with the loss of their names when they became Christians.  My only option is to pursue the records that are available to me..  I take great pride in every ancestor that helped get me here and would love to learn their tribes if not their real names. 

I did find it interesting that in my paternal grandparents, Epitacio Castanon and Juana Sanchez both said they were Yndios and the records disprove some of that and the DNA for my grandfather said European.  I guess this is one of the amazing things abt reclaiming our true family history and the genealogy we all work so hard to keep correct by working together and sharing records in Nuestrosranchos.  This group helps fill the holes and tell a story of the times and lives of those whos names we have recalled.  We do good work!

Linda in Boulder City

— On Thu, 12/3/09, Alicia Carrillo wrote:

From: Alicia Carrillo
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Royal Blood
To: general@nuestrosranchos.org
Date: Thursday, December 3, 2009, 8:22 AM

Eric,

I read your posting and while reading was continously nodding my head.

I can’t tell you how often in talking to people from Mexico, they claim to be of Spanish or French Ancestry, never a mention of their Mexican or native American heritage. I find it sad that we celebrate what we don’t know and don’t celebrate what we do know, delude ourselves with the wishful thinking rather than with the reality, whatever that reality may be.

Thanks for your postings……I have enjoyed your commentaries and wisdoms.

Alicia,
San Jose, Calif

________________________________
From: eric edgar
To: general@nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Wed, December 2, 2009 11:13:21 PM
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Royal Blood

Both of my Mexican families believed they were of Spanish descent. The
Callejas fiercly claimed to be descended from the last Viceroy, Felix Maria
Calleja. My grandmother often told
us how her family in Oaxaca had his uniform as a treasured relic and they
were forced to leave it behind during revolution. Not to be disrespectful, I
never asked how we were related.

As I started collecting the vital records, it became clear it was not true.
My father was dismayed I would spend such energy to disprove his heritage. I
was actually trying to prove it , but

  found otherwise. The trail ends  in Sola de Vega , Oaxaca with an exposto
child adopted by the local hacendado around 1700. Maybe no Spanish blood at
all. The maternal part,

Zamora, was from Miahuatlan, Oaxaca, and involves a priest who seems to have
changed his mind about a career.

The Robledo’s were less concerned with royalty, but much more with the
Castilian origin. My last document for that family listed a Don Jose Maria
Robledo, *Espanoles*, *Caballero.*
**
With no paper to follow,  I had a Y DNA test since this was my paternal
line. The results were for Haplogroup O,  south asian,not native
American, closest matches in the Phillipines.

Again no Spanish blood, but I think a much more interesting story. The
ancestor likely sailed in on a Manila Galleon, he or his descendants made
good and somewere along were

accepted as Spanish.  If I had found this out when my father was still
around I know he would have been furious and claimed some kind of
conspiracy. Maybe dis-owned me. There are

still a few of his cousins in Mexico that I won’t tell. Around 1900, most of
that generation married into American and English families that were
working in  mining, oil and railroads. Today,

the surviving elders will still celebrate their Spanish heritage first
. I think it’s funny that people choose to place less importance on what
they are, than on what they might be.  ( Or not be)

Eric Robledo Edgar
*

*

I found the comments from J. Antonio, Leon, and Eric (see below) very interesting, since in my research from Zacatecas to Santa Fe, New Mexico to Juarez I have found that my ancestors have been marrying into the same families at least since the late 1600s which is as far back as I can get. It had nothing to do with wealth or social position. They were all farmers, whether they owned haciendas or not. A few were officers stationed at presidios.

Starting in New Mexico almost 300 years ago, I can see that my ancestors were much like what J. Antonio describes in Nuevo Leon, where people were isolated, probably had Sephardic ancestry due to their customs, food, and an archaic Spanish that sounds so close to Ladino.

In Zacatecas I found that my father was misled to think that his great-grandfather, known as “el Frances”, was not French, but from people who had been in Zacatecas for generations, all described as espanol, not a Frenchman among them. I think this is because the French had been there, and those are the only light-skinned, blue eyed people they knew and remembered. Because of the meztizaje, some dark people in a family were told “saliste puro indio”, where their siblings were “gueros”.

In Juarez, the Lower El Paso Valley in Texas, and the neighboring Mesilla Valley in southern New Mexico starting in the late 1600s when my ancestors escaped the Indian revolution in Northern New Mexico and resettled in those areas, just about all the families intermarried. This had nothing to do with “puresa de sangre” or royalty or wealth, I don’t believe, but rather the isolation and the provincial mindset of the people themselves. The formed clans, as in Old England, Scotland, and Ireland.

Even here in the United States people joke about white trash or “rednecks” in the South and Appalachia who “marry their cousins” and are inbred. Those people are usually dirt poor. Does anyone remember the feuds between the Hatfield and McCoy clans several generations ago that started because a girl from one clan wanted to marry a boy from another clan? Shades of Romeo and Juliet.

Today there are people in Utah, Arizona, and Texas that isolate themselves as distinct Mormon clans, separate from mainstream Mormons, where it is known that the leaders act much like chieftans of old and decide that cousins should marry rather than marry out of their clans.

So, this intermarrying is not or has been just the custom of Altenos, but rather of people who are isolated and provincial regardless of color or economic/social status.

Emilie
Port Orchard, WA

—– Original Message —–
From: J. Antonio

Well, in my blood the only “royalty” that runs thru it is that of Crown Royal. Just kiddin, but on a serious matter, I was reading the beginning of this thread as it pertained to Sephardic ancestory and I wanted to comment that my wife’s family is from Northern Nuevo Leon and their customs, food, and spanish is oddly different from my parents’ family from Zacatecas and SLP. As soon as I finish my geneaology I will begin hers -J. Antonio Camacho

Linda, I feel sad that we won’t ever know what tribe we are from, and I am not talking just about the Indios, since as you know, my espanol Olague grandfather married into the Tinajero family of espanoles who intermarried with the Surianos whose ancestry is riddled with “mulatos”, and hardly any indians. What tribes in Africa were they from?

I heard that perhaps many Indians in the states of our area of research (Jalisco, Aguas, Zacatecas) were Tlaxcalans brought from the areas farther south settled earlier? Does anyone know more about this?

Mexico is mostly a land of meztizos, no? I have heard some Mexicans say “soy puro mexicano”, but there is no pure mexican race–aren’t most of mixed race, whether mulato, or Indian? And if you look hard enough, don’t most families who claim pure Spanish ancestry really have a Jew or Indian, or African in their woodpile somewhere? I do recognize that “soy puro mexicano” is a statement of national pride. I can’t seem to get that across to some Mexicans that I don’t feel “mexican”, and my “patria” is America, meaning the US, where I was born and raised.

I have talked to several recent immigrants doing yard work around here that everyone thinks are “mexican”, but I find they are Mayans from Guatemala or Porepeches from Southern Mexico who are still close to their tribal roots and even still speak their own languages rather than Spanish at home. If they learn English, it is their third language. Even the Mayans don’t understand each other; some speak Ka’anjobal and others speak Quiche. Most gringos don’t know or care about the differences. Every Latino, whether from Central or South America is a “mexican” to them, and they don’t have a very accepting attitude towards them. It’s too bad that some groups think they are better than others, whether they are in the US or Mexico, because that doesn’t foster good relationships, and is non-productive.

Emilie
Port Orchard, WA
—– Original Message —–
From: Erlinda Castanon-Long
To: general@nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Thursday, December 03, 2009 12:16 PM
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Royal Blood

Like Alicia I related to Eric’s commentary. I would personally love to find exactly what tribes we descend from in both my maternal and paternal line but that isn’t possible with the loss of their names when they became Christians. My only option is to pursue the records that are available to me.. I take great pride in every ancestor that helped get me here and would love to learn their tribes if not their real names.

I did find it interesting that in my paternal grandparents, Epitacio Castanon and Juana Sanchez both said they were Yndios and the records disprove some of that and the DNA for my grandfather said European. I guess this is one of the amazing things abt reclaiming our true family history and the genealogy we all work so hard to keep correct by working together and sharing records in Nuestrosranchos. This group helps fill the holes and tell a story of the times and lives of those whos names we have recalled. We do good work!

Linda in Boulder City

To me, being a Mexican goes beyond the facts of where I was born, where I
was raised, who my ancestors were or where they were from. It has more to do
with how I was raised, the culture, the traditions and the spiritual
connection with the place I feel I belong to.

The main reason I got into genealogy was to find out how much Mexican I was.
I wanted to know where my Mexican ancestors were from, what their names
were, what they did when they were alive, etc., but what I most wanted to
find out was how much native Mexican blood I had in me, if I had Aztec
ancestors (which later I was sadden to find out that I had almost close to
none, or even none), because to me it is important to know and understand
where I come from, how I am built.

Although I was born in the US, I don’t feel that I’m American, I feel that
I’m Mexican. Even after I discovered I had way more Spanish blood than any
other (between 7/8 and 15/16), I don’t feel I’m Spanish at all, I still feel
that I’m Mexican. Even after my first five years of research, when I
recently discovered that my Rodriguez de Frias lineage might come from the
Frias de Albornoz lineage (direct descendents of the Senores de Albornoz,
these being direct descendents of the Reyes de Leon and Reyes de Castilla),
I still don’t feel that I am Spanish, because I’m not, I’m Mexican.

So being a Mexican, in my opinion, comes from asking yourself where your
heart belongs to, where you feel the land calls to your spirit and claims
its ownership. I found my true calling here in Los Altos de Jalisco, because
I’m an Alteno, I’m Mexican.

Ricardo Rodriguez Camarena
Valle de Guadalupe, Jalisco

—–Mensaje original—–
De: general-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
[mailto:general-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org] En nombre de Emilie
Garcia
Enviado el: Thursday, December 03, 2009 3:08 PM
Para: general@nuestrosranchos.org
Asunto: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Royal Blood

Linda, I feel sad that we won’t ever know what tribe we are from, and I am
not talking just about the Indios, since as you know, my espanol Olague
grandfather married into the Tinajero family of espanoles who intermarried
with the Surianos whose ancestry is riddled with “mulatos”, and hardly any
indians. What tribes in Africa were they from?

I heard that perhaps many Indians in the states of our area of research
(Jalisco, Aguas, Zacatecas) were Tlaxcalans brought from the areas farther
south settled earlier? Does anyone know more about this?

Mexico is mostly a land of meztizos, no? I have heard some Mexicans say
“soy puro mexicano”, but there is no pure mexican race–aren’t most of mixed
race, whether mulato, or Indian? And if you look hard enough, don’t most
families who claim pure Spanish ancestry really have a Jew or Indian, or
African in their woodpile somewhere? I do recognize that “soy puro
mexicano” is a statement of national pride. I can’t seem to get that across
to some Mexicans that I don’t feel “mexican”, and my “patria” is America,
meaning the US, where I was born and raised.

I have talked to several recent immigrants doing yard work around here that
everyone thinks are “mexican”, but I find they are Mayans from Guatemala or
Porepeches from Southern Mexico who are still close to their tribal roots
and even still speak their own languages rather than Spanish at home. If
they learn English, it is their third language. Even the Mayans don’t
understand each other; some speak Ka’anjobal and others speak Quiche. Most
gringos don’t know or care about the differences. Every Latino, whether
from Central or South America is a “mexican” to them, and they don’t have a
very accepting attitude towards them. It’s too bad that some groups think
they are better than others, whether they are in the US or Mexico, because
that doesn’t foster good relationships, and is non-productive.

Emilie
Port Orchard, WA
—– Original Message —–
From: Erlinda Castanon-Long
To: general@nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Thursday, December 03, 2009 12:16 PM
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Royal Blood

Like Alicia I related to Eric’s commentary. I would personally love to
find exactly what tribes we descend from in both my maternal and paternal
line but that isn’t possible with the loss of their names when they became
Christians. My only option is to pursue the records that are available to
me.. I take great pride in every ancestor that helped get me here and would
love to learn their tribes if not their real names.

I did find it interesting that in my paternal grandparents, Epitacio
Castanon and Juana Sanchez both said they were Yndios and the records
disprove some of that and the DNA for my grandfather said European. I guess
this is one of the amazing things abt reclaiming our true family history and
the genealogy we all work so hard to keep correct by working together and
sharing records in Nuestrosranchos. This group helps fill the holes and tell
a story of the times and lives of those whos names we have recalled. We do
good work!

Linda in Boulder City

Beautifully said. Thank you.
-Esperanza

On 12/3/09 1:59 PM, “Rick Rodriguez” wrote:

> To me, being a Mexican goes beyond the facts of where I was born, where I
> was raised, who my ancestors were or where they were from. It has more to do
> with how I was raised, the culture, the traditions and the spiritual
> connection with the place I feel I belong to.
>
> The main reason I got into genealogy was to find out how much Mexican I was.
> I wanted to know where my Mexican ancestors were from, what their names
> were, what they did when they were alive, etc., but what I most wanted to
> find out was how much native Mexican blood I had in me, if I had Aztec
> ancestors (which later I was sadden to find out that I had almost close to
> none, or even none), because to me it is important to know and understand
> where I come from, how I am built.
>
> Although I was born in the US, I don’t feel that I’m American, I feel that
> I’m Mexican. Even after I discovered I had way more Spanish blood than any
> other (between 7/8 and 15/16), I don’t feel I’m Spanish at all, I still feel
> that I’m Mexican. Even after my first five years of research, when I
> recently discovered that my Rodriguez de Frias lineage might come from the
> Frias de Albornoz lineage (direct descendents of the Senores de Albornoz,
> these being direct descendents of the Reyes de Leon and Reyes de Castilla),
> I still don’t feel that I am Spanish, because I’m not, I’m Mexican.
>
> So being a Mexican, in my opinion, comes from asking yourself where your
> heart belongs to, where you feel the land calls to your spirit and claims
> its ownership. I found my true calling here in Los Altos de Jalisco, because
> I’m an Alteno, I’m Mexican.
>
> Ricardo Rodriguez Camarena
> Valle de Guadalupe, Jalisco
>
>
>
> —–Mensaje original—–
> De: general-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
> [mailto:general-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org] En nombre de Emilie
> Garcia
> Enviado el: Thursday, December 03, 2009 3:08 PM
> Para: general@nuestrosranchos.org
> Asunto: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Royal Blood
>
> Linda, I feel sad that we won’t ever know what tribe we are from, and I am
> not talking just about the Indios, since as you know, my espanol Olague
> grandfather married into the Tinajero family of espanoles who intermarried
> with the Surianos whose ancestry is riddled with “mulatos”, and hardly any
> indians. What tribes in Africa were they from?
>
> I heard that perhaps many Indians in the states of our area of research
> (Jalisco, Aguas, Zacatecas) were Tlaxcalans brought from the areas farther
> south settled earlier? Does anyone know more about this?
>
> Mexico is mostly a land of meztizos, no? I have heard some Mexicans say
> “soy puro mexicano”, but there is no pure mexican race–aren’t most of mixed
> race, whether mulato, or Indian? And if you look hard enough, don’t most
> families who claim pure Spanish ancestry really have a Jew or Indian, or
> African in their woodpile somewhere? I do recognize that “soy puro
> mexicano” is a statement of national pride. I can’t seem to get that across
> to some Mexicans that I don’t feel “mexican”, and my “patria” is America,
> meaning the US, where I was born and raised.
>
> I have talked to several recent immigrants doing yard work around here that
> everyone thinks are “mexican”, but I find they are Mayans from Guatemala or
> Porepeches from Southern Mexico who are still close to their tribal roots
> and even still speak their own languages rather than Spanish at home. If
> they learn English, it is their third language. Even the Mayans don’t
> understand each other; some speak Ka’anjobal and others speak Quiche. Most
> gringos don’t know or care about the differences. Every Latino, whether
> from Central or South America is a “mexican” to them, and they don’t have a
> very accepting attitude towards them. It’s too bad that some groups think
> they are better than others, whether they are in the US or Mexico, because
> that doesn’t foster good relationships, and is non-productive.
>
> Emilie
> Port Orchard, WA
> —– Original Message —–
> From: Erlinda Castanon-Long
> To: general@nuestrosranchos.org
> Sent: Thursday, December 03, 2009 12:16 PM
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Royal Blood
>
>
> Like Alicia I related to Eric’s commentary. I would personally love to
> find exactly what tribes we descend from in both my maternal and paternal
> line but that isn’t possible with the loss of their names when they became
> Christians. My only option is to pursue the records that are available to
> me.. I take great pride in every ancestor that helped get me here and would
> love to learn their tribes if not their real names.
>
> I did find it interesting that in my paternal grandparents, Epitacio
> Castanon and Juana Sanchez both said they were Yndios and the records
> disprove some of that and the DNA for my grandfather said European. I guess
> this is one of the amazing things abt reclaiming our true family history and
> the genealogy we all work so hard to keep correct by working together and
> sharing records in Nuestrosranchos. This group helps fill the holes and tell
> a story of the times and lives of those whos names we have recalled. We do
> good work!
>
> Linda in Boulder City

One good source to find out which Indians from the south (Tlaxcalans,
Purepecha, Mexica, etc.) settled where in Jalisco and Zacatecas is
Peter Gerhard’s “North Frontier of New Spain.” Gerhard discussed each
province separately and what went on within that jurisdiction,
including settlements of Otomis, Tlaxcalans, Texcocans, Tarascans, etc.

I wrote several stories where I pointed out some of Gerhard’s writings.
For example, Sain Alto in northwest Zacatecas was in the territory of
the Zacatecos but was also settled by Tlaxcalans, so people of
indigenous origins from there might be descended from both groups.

Here are the links to my stories:

http://www.houstonculture.org/mexico/states.html

http://www.houstonculture.org/mexico/zacatecas_indig.html

http://www.somosprimos.com/schmal/schmal.htm

Another example:
Near the city of Zacatecas, Mr. Gerhard writes, each Indian group
“lived in its own barrio,” and these became pueblos segregated by
nationality and language. Eventually there were barrios for the Aztecs
(Mexicalpa), the Tlaxcalans (Tlacuitlapan), Tarascans (Tonaláa), and
Texcocans (El Niño).
(This is in reference to the 1500s, the early development of La Ciudad.)

John Schmal

—–Original Message—–
From: Emilie Garcia
To: general@nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Thu, Dec 3, 2009 1:07 pm
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Royal Blood

Linda, I feel sad that we won’t ever know what tribe we are from, and I
am not talking just about the Indios, since as you know, my espanol
Olague grandfather married into the Tinajero family of espanoles who
intermarried with the Surianos whose ancestry is riddled with
“mulatos”, and hardly any indians. What tribes in Africa were they
from?

I heard that perhaps many Indians in the states of our area of research
(Jalisco, Aguas, Zacatecas) were Tlaxcalans brought from the areas
farther south settled earlier? Does anyone know more about this?

Mexico is mostly a land of meztizos, no? I have heard some Mexicans
say “soy puro mexicano”, but there is no pure mexican race–aren’t most
of mixed race, whether mulato, or Indian? And if you look hard enough,
don’t most families who claim pure Spanish ancestry really have a Jew
or Indian, or African in their woodpile somewhere? I do recognize that
“soy puro mexicano” is a statement of national pride. I can’t seem to
get that across to some Mexicans that I don’t feel “mexican”, and my
“patria” is America, meaning the US, where I was born and raised.

I have talked to several recent immigrants doing yard work around here
that everyone thinks are “mexican”, but I find they are Mayans from
Guatemala or Porepeches from Southern Mexico who are still close to
their tribal roots and even still speak their own languages rather than
Spanish at home. If they learn English, it is their third language.
Even the Mayans don’t understand each other; some speak Ka’anjobal and
others speak Quiche. Most gringos don’t know or care about the
differences. Every Latino, whether from Central or South America is a
“mexican” to them, and they don’t have a very accepting attitude
towards them. It’s too bad that some groups think they are better than
others, whether they are in the US or Mexico, because that doesn’t
foster good relationships, and is non-productive.

Emilie
Port Orchard, WA
—– Original Message —–
From: Erlinda Castanon-Long
To: general@nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Thursday, December 03, 2009 12:16 PM
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Royal Blood

Like Alicia I related to Eric’s commentary. I would personally love
to find exactly what tribes we descend from in both my maternal and
paternal line but that isn’t possible with the loss of their names when
they became Christians. My only option is to pursue the records that
are available to me.. I take great pride in every ancestor that helped
get me here and would love to learn their tribes if not their real
names.

I did find it interesting that in my paternal grandparents, Epitacio
Castanon and Juana Sanchez both said they were Yndios and the records
disprove some of that and the DNA for my grandfather said European. I
guess this is one of the amazing things abt reclaiming our true family
history and the genealogy we all work so hard to keep correct by
working together and sharing records in Nuestrosranchos. This group
helps fill the holes and tell a story of the times and lives of those
whos names we have recalled. We do good work!

Linda in Boulder City