Thanks Emilie!!!
Id be glad to help if you need any, Ill have some extra time soon!
-Daniel
Send me your brick walls, I have a huge alteno database! and its still growing.
>From 1500s-1890s.
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Don’t get me wrong Emilie, I’m not saying you’re not Mexican or that I’m
more Mexican than you or others, I was just sharing the fact that I’m very
proud to be a Mexican, I apologize if any part of my comment made you feel
uncomfortable.
Some sociologists have come to the conclusion that most Mexicans living in
Mexico lack of an own identity and that this crisis is the cause of many of
our social issues when we compare ourselves to other countries, but that’s a
different issue that would take forever to cover. I want to think that I
don’t have this problem.
I was born in Los Angeles and I was raised by my parents (both born in
Mexico). I spoke Spanish at home and English everywhere else, this helped me
to learn both languages much easier. We came to live to Mexico when I was
10, and I went back y myself to the US when I was 20. I’ve lived close to 20
years in Los Angeles and less than that here in Mexico, but I feel my place
is here in Los Altos, it’s hard to explain. I just responded to the voice in
my heart that told me that I had to be down here.
So, I guess I didn’t choose to be a Mexican, I would say that Mexico chose
me to be its son.
Sure, I would love to travel someday to Talavera, Cuenca, Albornoz, Leon,
Castilla and the rest of Spain someday, when I have the resources to do so,
visit and pay my respects to my ancestor’s burial sites. I would also have
to visit France, Italy, England, Germany, Denmark, Egypt, Africa, and all
the places my paternal ancestors were from, so I guess I’ll just stick to
Los Altos for now, but it still doesn’t mean I’m not a proud Alteno and
Mexican, I love my country, not necessarily the people running it. I want to
know more about my country’s history as well, so if I were to go on a voyage
around the world, I would have to start by traveling my country first…
don’t you agree? I have so much respect and awe for native American history
and their cultures, it’s too bad I don’t have that much native blood in me.
The tribes that lived here in Los Altos before the conquest were from
Chichimeca origins, which I know so little about.
I’m currently doing research here in Los Altos, and I develop websites
during my breaks. You can see pictures of some towns and people from Los
Altos de Jalisco in the following websites:
www.Valledeguadalupe.com (Valle de Guadalupe, where I live)
www.Hechoenlachona.com (Encarnacion de Diaz)
www.miJalisco.com
Well, gotta get back to work.
Best regards,
Rick
Jaime Rendon Hernandez
Linda,
According to Gary Felix of the Genealogy of Mexico Hispanic Surname Project Mexico, results from Y DNA Testing are beginning to show common genetic markers of Indigenous peoples who claim they are of the same tribe, but say that they are not related. In other words different Native tribes in Mexico are beginning to distinguish themselves from other tribes by their distinctive Y (male chromosome) genetic markers. Once more Y data is collected there may be a time when we will be able to know from exactly what tribe we descend in Mexico. So do not despair Linda!!
I am not sure, but I think the MTDNA X (female chromosome) is also showing a genetic pattern! DNA testing is good for people who have no paper trail of their ancestry!
Well then, my heart belongs in the US and in Ireland! 🙂 Marge:)
“So being a Mexican, in my opinion, comes from asking yourself where
your
heart belongs to, where you feel the land calls to your spirit and
claims
its ownership. I found my true calling here in Los Altos de Jalisco,
because
I’m an Alteno, I’m Mexican.
Ricardo Rodriguez Camarena
Valle de Guadalupe, Jalisco”
—–Mensaje original—–
De: general-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
[mailto:general-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org] En nombre de Emilie
Garcia
Enviado el: Thursday, December 03, 2009 3:08 PM
Para: general@nuestrosranchos.org
Asunto: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Royal Blood
Linda, I feel sad that we won’t ever know what tribe we are from, and
I am
not talking just about the Indios, since as you know, my espanol Olague
grandfather married into the Tinajero family of espanoles who
intermarried
with the Surianos whose ancestry is riddled with “mulatos”, and hardly
any
indians. What tribes in Africa were they from?
I heard that perhaps many Indians in the states of our area of research
(Jalisco, Aguas, Zacatecas) were Tlaxcalans brought from the areas
farther
south settled earlier? Does anyone know more about this?
Mexico is mostly a land of meztizos, no? I have heard some Mexicans say
“soy puro mexicano”, but there is no pure mexican race–aren’t most of
mixed
race, whether mulato, or Indian? And if you look hard enough, don’t
most
families who claim pure Spanish ancestry really have a Jew or Indian, or
African in their woodpile somewhere? I do recognize that “soy puro
mexicano” is a statement of national pride. I can’t seem to get that
across
to some Mexicans that I don’t feel “mexican”, and my “patria” is
America,
meaning the US, where I was born and raised.
I have talked to several recent immigrants doing yard work around here
that
everyone thinks are “mexican”, but I find they are Mayans from
Guatemala or
Porepeches from Southern Mexico who are still close to their tribal
roots
and even still speak their own languages rather than Spanish at home.
If
they learn English, it is their third language. Even the Mayans don’t
understand each other; some speak Ka’anjobal and others speak Quiche.
Most
gringos don’t know or care about the differences. Every Latino, whether
from Central or South America is a “mexican” to them, and they don’t
have a
very accepting attitude towards them. It’s too bad that some groups
think
they are better than others, whether they are in the US or Mexico,
because
that doesn’t foster good relationships, and is non-productive.
Emilie
Port Orchard, WA
—– Original Message —–
From: Erlinda Castanon-Long
To: general@nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Thursday, December 03, 2009 12:16 PM
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Royal Blood
Like Alicia I related to Eric’s commentary. I would personally love to
find exactly what tribes we descend from in both my maternal and
paternal
line but that isn’t possible with the loss of their names when they
became
Christians. My only option is to pursue the records that are available
to
me.. I take great pride in every ancestor that helped get me here and
would
love to learn their tribes if not their real names.
I did find it interesting that in my paternal grandparents, Epitacio
Castanon and Juana Sanchez both said they were Yndios and the records
disprove some of that and the DNA for my grandfather said European. I
guess
this is one of the amazing things abt reclaiming our true family
history and
the genealogy we all work so hard to keep correct by working together
and
sharing records in Nuestrosranchos. This group helps fill the holes
and tell
a story of the times and lives of those whos names we have recalled.
We do
good work!
Linda in Boulder City
Spain was the first melting pot and a lot of the families that we descend from did have a lot of french blood o r basque blood.
Some of The spanish families we descend from were not white. I have accumulated ample evidence of north african blood in some of the lines from spain. One of the lines was just recently discovered because of access to old family paPers that held family secrets. These papers were in sitting in a library that had not been touched for centuries.
——Original Message——
From: Daniel Mendez de Camino y Soto
Sender: general-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
To: general@nuestrosranchos.org
ReplyTo: general@nuestrosranchos.org
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Royal Blood
Sent: Dec 3, 2009 6:16 PM
I still have difficulty understanding why people claim french blood just becaause they were white.
Like Don Mariano gonzalez leal said, la gente mejicana es blanca por que sus antepasados eran espanoles.
The Spaniards were also white europeans. I commonly hear in Mexico “he has blue eyes b/c his grandpa
is french”
This doesnt make sense, a Spaniard can have blue eyes too.
espanol is an iffy term.
espanol is like saying American. Usually when people say american they think white.
I tink espanol could have meant any european who assimilated into Spanish society
in Mexico and were white. Becuase imagine a frenchman who immigrated to Mexico
this Grandchildren wuld have married Spanish in Mexico and would have been labeled
espanol just because of his skin, diregarding his french blood.
-Daniel
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I once told an Anglo friend that her Anglo ancestors who lived in Texas pre-1840s were in fact “Mexican” (by nationality); she was blown away becuase she had never thought in those terms…labels dont mean much if anything but society has attributed certain positive and negative aspects with such labels…
> From: teacozygran@kc.rr.com
> To: general@nuestrosranchos.org
> Date: Thu, 3 Dec 2009 22:34:40 -0600
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Being a Mexican
>
> Well then, my heart belongs in the US and in Ireland! 🙂 Marge:)
>
> “So being a Mexican, in my opinion, comes from asking yourself where
> your
> heart belongs to, where you feel the land calls to your spirit and
> claims
> its ownership. I found my true calling here in Los Altos de Jalisco,
> because
> I’m an Alteno, I’m Mexican.
>
> Ricardo Rodriguez Camarena
> Valle de Guadalupe, Jalisco”
>
>
>
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I dont doubt some families had some Jewish converso or moorish blood in the south. It also
depends on the area of Spain. Andalucia is a hotspot for Moorish DNA that might have mixed
with some people. We have to be careful about this because this is where the stereotype
that Spaniards are not white because “THEY all mixed with muslims” This stereotype
was used against Spaniards in the early 1900s to say they were not white according to
American standards. Which is ridiculous of course some ought to have moor or jewish blood
but to say all Spaniards, thats iffy. Look at the US half the people they never considered white
are white now, Spaniards, English, German Italians, etc.
-Daniel
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There is a form of this “royal blood” syndrome for native people in Mexico.
My grandmothers oldest sister was from her mother’s first marriage. Her
contention was that her family decsended from La Malinche, also known as
Dona Marina, the translator, advisor and mistress of Cortes.
Eric Robledo Edgar
On Thu, Dec 3, 2009 at 8:39 PM, tony cobos wrote:
>
> I once told an Anglo friend that her Anglo ancestors who lived in Texas
> pre-1840s were in fact “Mexican” (by nationality); she was blown away
> becuase she had never thought in those terms…labels dont mean much if
> anything but society has attributed certain positive and negative aspects
> with such labels…
>
> > From: teacozygran@kc.rr.com
> > To: general@nuestrosranchos.org
> > Date: Thu, 3 Dec 2009 22:34:40 -0600
> > Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Being a Mexican
> >
> > Well then, my heart belongs in the US and in Ireland! 🙂 Marge:)
> >
> > “So being a Mexican, in my opinion, comes from asking yourself where
> > your
> > heart belongs to, where you feel the land calls to your spirit and
> > claims
> > its ownership. I found my true calling here in Los Altos de Jalisco,
> > because
> > I’m an Alteno, I’m Mexican.
> >
> > Ricardo Rodriguez Camarena
> > Valle de Guadalupe, Jalisco”
> >
> >
> >
> _________________________________________________________________
> Chat with Messenger straight from your Hotmail inbox.
>
> http://www.microsoft.com/windows/windowslive/hotmail_bl1/hotmail_bl1.aspx?ocid=PID23879::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-ww:WM_IMHM_4:092009
Daniel,
I have found that many Americans of Northern European descent (England, Ireland, Scotland, Scandinavia, Germany, etc) still don’t consider those of Southern European descent (Spain, France, Portugal) as “white”.
Emilie
—– Original Message —–
From: Daniel Mendez de Camino y Soto
To: general@nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Thursday, December 03, 2009 10:08 PM
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Royal Blood
I dont doubt some families had some Jewish converso or moorish blood in the south. It also
depends on the area of Spain. Andalucia is a hotspot for Moorish DNA that might have mixed
with some people. We have to be careful about this because this is where the stereotype
that Spaniards are not white because “THEY all mixed with muslims” This stereotype
was used against Spaniards in the early 1900s to say they were not white according to
American standards. Which is ridiculous of course some ought to have moor or jewish blood
but to say all Spaniards, thats iffy. Look at the US half the people they never considered white
are white now, Spaniards, English, German Italians, etc.
-Daniel
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I’m not so sure about this. In Mexico, hyphen terms are probably used to recent immigrants to Mexico, I assume, but I cannot confirm that. Based on my experience, what you say is not true. I used to live near the California border with Mexicali (lots of Chinese immigrants) and knew some second and third generation “Chinese-Mexicans”, as you would call them, but they always refered to themselves as Mexicanos, period. Of course, they were proud of their heritage, but they were Mexicanos. Same thing here in North Carolina. I live in Winston Salem, and there his a big population of Mexican immigrants, primarily from the states of Veracruz and Guerrero. Many of these guys are from Acapulco and the Costa Chica (Cuajinicuilapa and San Nicolas). Many of them could easily pass as African Americans, and guess what, they don’t call themselves “Afro-Mexicans”, but Mexicanos, just like I do.
Personally, I love Mexico, its culture, traditions, language, food, people, etc. I am a Mexicano because I lived there until age 15. One thing for sure, the Mexican government is disgusting. I love the country itself, but not the way it is run, and that is how I’m planning on raising my daughter. She’s an American. She’ll love the United States and the way it is run. I know, the US government is flawed, but I wish Mexican politicians were just a little bit like in the US. Anyways, I’ll teach her to love her Mexican culture and traditions. I’ll make sure she learns good English and good Spanish as well. What I’m trying to say is that I love all about Mexico, except the way it’s run, but I also appreciate the opportunities the United States gave my family.
Unfortunately, Mexico’s way of living is declining rapidly, thanks to poverty, corrupt politicians, and drug dealers. Sometimes I think Santa Ana made a big mistake when he gave the Mexican territory north of the Rio Grande to the US. Instead, he should’ve given all the territory north of the Suchiate River.
— On Thu, 12/3/09, Daniel Mendez de Camino y Soto wrote:
From: Daniel Mendez de Camino y Soto
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Being a Mexican
To: general@nuestrosranchos.org
Date: Thursday, December 3, 2009, 9:05 PM
My parents are mexican they identify with a hypehn term
Portuguese Mexican and Spanish Mexican. Just like inthe US
its common to see the hyphenated American term
(ie. Mexican American) it is also seen in Mexico.
-Daniel
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Perhaps you will find this article interesting:
http://www.elmundo.es/elmundo/2008/12/04/ciencia/1228409780.html
America is a continent not a country, so we all in the american continent are amaricans.
Ruben Casillas M.
— El vie 4-dic-09, Steve Apodaca escribió:
De:: Steve Apodaca
Asunto: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Being a Mexican
A: general@nuestrosranchos.org
Fecha: viernes 4 de diciembre de 2009, 9:34
I’m not so sure about this. In Mexico, hyphen terms are probably used to recent immigrants to Mexico, I assume, but I cannot confirm that. Based on my experience, what you say is not true. I used to live near the California border with Mexicali (lots of Chinese immigrants) and knew some second and third generation “Chinese-Mexicans”, as you would call them, but they always refered to themselves as Mexicanos, period. Of course, they were proud of their heritage, but they were Mexicanos. Same thing here in North Carolina. I live in Winston Salem, and there his a big population of Mexican immigrants, primarily from the states of Veracruz and Guerrero. Many of these guys are from Acapulco and the Costa Chica (Cuajinicuilapa and San Nicolas). Many of them could easily pass as African Americans, and guess what, they don’t call themselves “Afro-Mexicans”, but Mexicanos, just like I do.
Personally, I love Mexico, its culture, traditions, language, food, people, etc. I am a Mexicano because I lived there until age 15. One thing for sure, the Mexican government is disgusting. I love the country itself, but not the way it is run, and that is how I’m planning on raising my daughter. She’s an American. She’ll love the United States and the way it is run. I know, the US government is flawed, but I wish Mexican politicians were just a little bit like in the US. Anyways, I’ll teach her to love her Mexican culture and traditions. I’ll make sure she learns good English and good Spanish as well. What I’m trying to say is that I love all about Mexico, except the way it’s run, but I also appreciate the opportunities the United States gave my family.
Unfortunately, Mexico’s way of living is declining rapidly, thanks to poverty, corrupt politicians, and drug dealers. Sometimes I think Santa Ana made a big mistake when he gave the Mexican territory north of the Rio Grande to the US. Instead, he should’ve given all the territory north of the Suchiate River.
— On Thu, 12/3/09, Daniel Mendez de Camino y Soto wrote:
From: Daniel Mendez de Camino y Soto
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Being a Mexican
To: general@nuestrosranchos.org
Date: Thursday, December 3, 2009, 9:05 PM
My parents are mexican they identify with a hypehn term
Portuguese Mexican and Spanish Mexican. Just like inthe US
its common to see the hyphenated American term
(ie. Mexican American) it is also seen in Mexico.
-Daniel
_________________________________________________________________
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Thank you Ruben ….. that has always bothered me. To often “America” and
“The United States” are used interchangeably and we forget that America is a
continent that is home to many different countries not just the US.
-Angelina-
————————————————–
From: “ruben casillas moreno”
Sent: Friday, December 04, 2009 7:52 AM
To:
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Being a Mexican
> America is a continent not a country, so we all in the american continent
> are amaricans.
>
> Ruben Casillas M.
>
I know some still dont, the census does though. I think its ironic white basicallymeans white skin. Genetics have proven that English part of their genetic ancestry
came from Iberia (Spain) and arethe closest related tothe spaniards). Then Northern spain is mostly Celtic. I think it just shows how ignorant american societyreally is. -Daniel
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Daniel,
Not sure if this is your reply to my question about what haplogroup is your mtDNA, but if it is… are your DNA test results posted online, and if so where?
thank you,
Pat Silva Corbera
—– Original Message —–
From: “Daniel Mendez de Camino y Soto”
To: general@nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Thursday, December 3, 2009 6:18:49 PM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Royal Blood
I also think its H1; Ill need to check it again its in my massive documents and colections of papers!!!!!
I need to come up with a better organization system my closet is full of stuff!!!! 🙂 Which is good!
-Daniel
