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Walking in Two Worlds

admin · 2009-07-07T00:18:59Z

I've been reading through some of the wonderful posts in regards to struggling with speaking Spanish and the challenges of living in two cultures , just some thoughts ; I've been reading through some of the wonderful posts in regards to struggling with speaking Spanish and the challenges of living in two cultures , just some thoughts ; I grew up in the U.S. in a small mining town located in southeastern Arizona . When my father's family left the villa in Los Altos , they settled in Miami and Jerome Arizona. He came to the states when he was just 2 years old. All of the men in my fathers family were miners, as was my father when he returned to AZ after a stint in the military. My father's first language at home was Spanish, he said he really didn't start speaking English until after he began elementary school. He knew first hand the challenges of not being able to speak english well so he always stressed to my sister and I how important it was to know BOTH languages, it was he said , to our benefit to know more than one language and he was right. The trouble was, growing up in the Southwest the early 70's, we were not allowed to speak Spanish at school. If you did, you got a trip to the principle's office, or sent home...sad but all too true. We still spoke it at home, but as we continued in school and made non Spanish speaking friends, we used it less and less. That was my first brush with the idea that there was an US and a THEM. Many of you can relate to this I'm sure. Growing up in the States I was just like any other American kid, I listened to Rock and Roll, not corridas , had long hair and loved hot rods. I played football not soccer . Although I loved to hear stories about my family history , I knew nothing of Los Altos...it was another world to me. Many of my friends were in the same boat, some of our familes had been in the US for three or more generations. My mother's people were some of the first settlers in the Tucson area, before Arizona was even a state, who had the right to tell me I didn't belong ? We kidded each other in Spanglish...mixing both languages, a hybrid, just like the culture we were growing up in. Back then there was no lable like Hispanic, or even worse, Latino...if you were a Mexican American , you were a Chicano or, if you came from Spanish stock like we did, you were a Hispano, which is a Southwestern term to denote ties to Spain, not a Spanish version of Hispanic. My home town is 8 or so miles from the Mexican frontera of Sonora. As my friends and I entered high school, we came into contact with other kids who lived right on the border of Sonora and AZ in a small town called Naco. These kids roots were in Sonora proper, their familes were in the US for maybe a genration at the most, they still had strong ties to Mexico and towns like Agua Prieta , Hermosillo and Nogales. Once again I got a taste of US and THEM. We were told by some, not all, that we were not Mexicans, we were pochos, we were lost people who's parents sold out and wanted to be gringos. It had nothing to do with a difference of appearence,it had everything to do with the side of the border you happened to be born on...you were from Mexico or el otro lado, the motherland or the other side, and there was no way to change it, period. So not only did we have challenges in the Anglo world , constant reminders that we were different . Things like not being able to go swimming at the local Elk's Club pool, or not being able to date certain non Mexican girls, even though many of us, myself included ,were constantly confused with being anything but Mexican because of our light skin . We also had to deal with what I call reverse racism, from other Mexicans who felt we didn't have the right to call ourselves Mexicans , not all of them of course, I must stess this, but to a good amount of Mexicanos we were just pochos. That is what put me on the path to learning about my family's roots, I was no longer content with what I learned from text books, none of it fit...and forget about movies or pop culture ! To this day everyone with a Spanish surname in a movie is either the bad guy or the girl that gets bedded by the Anglo hero, it's getting better, but not by much. I came to understand totally why people do family research, why I do research... to find MY ancestors. The group that I belong to and cannot deny me entry by right of blood, WHO EVER and WHAT EVER they were...is what I AM.

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alicebb

(@alicebb)

Posts: 454

Thanks, Emilie. I’ve taught English to students from all over the world at a local high school for nineteen years. Every year my students from Mexico are irritated by the fact that many of our US students of Mexican descent don’t speak Spanish. They actually believe that they can speak Spanish and merely choose not to use it. I try to explain that most of their families have been in the US for generations, and for various unfortunate reasons, have lost the language. They still don’t believe it, and respond: “como puede ser, si tienen el nopal en la frente”. Alice BB

— auntyemfaustus@hotmail.com wrote:

From: “Emilie Garcia”
To:
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Who we are
Date: Wed, 8 Jul 2009 10:48:43 -0700

Antonio,

A que te refieres? No me gusta tu tono. Tu vas a participar en las dos idiomas!? Yo no puedo participar como tu en espanol. Si tu no puedes participar en ingles, voy a usar un servicio de traduccion como del Google, etc. para leer tus e-mails.

Si, aqui se llama NUESTROS RANCHOS porque nuestros antecedentes tal vez vinieron de ranchos de mexico, pero el webmaster Arturo y el moderator Joseph son estadounidenses y pusieron este site sin pedir ninguna cosa de nosotros, y los primeros participantes aqui somos estadounidense. Unos podemos participar en dos idiomas, otros solamente en ingles o solamente en espanol como tu. Yo creo que puedes escribir en ingles, no? Sera interesante cuantos del grupo hablan solamente una idioma, sea ingles o espanol. Yo so miembro en otras sites de genealogia en mexico donde se habla solamente espanol y no les voy a decir que tienen que escribir en ingles.

Nuestros Ranchos tiene tres nombres para los e-mails: “general” es para “contar historias muy bonitas” etc, “research” es para temas de arboles de genealogia, y “announce” es para anuncios.

Perdoname mi pobre espanol, pero este e-mail es el unico que vas ver en espanol de mi parte. Dejo a otros que son realmente bilingue que participen en las dos idiomas si quieren, y estara bien conmigo si no.

Saludos cordiales,

Emilie
Port Orchard, Estado de Washington, Estados Unidos – USA

—– Original Message —–
From: Antonio Santillan
To: general@nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Tuesday, July 07, 2009 3:27 PM
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Who we are

A esto es a lo que me referia mi comentario de escribir en español, no era para contar historias muy bonitas por cierto, solo de participar en los dos idiomas y mas señalandoles que aqui se llama NUESTROS RANCHOS en español.

Saludos cordiales y felicidades al que comparte su historia y utiliza el español e ingles en su narracion

Antonio Santillan

> To: general@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
> From: rcordovamba@aol.com
> Date: Mon, 6 Jul 2009 20:40:57 -0700
> Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Who we are
>
> Great post! It brought tears to my eyes. I was born and raised in a border town in Sonora and later moved a few yards North of the fence and live in a border city in Arizona. This is a wonderful safe heaven for new immigrants like me. More than 95% of the population speaks Spanish, including the post office and city hall. However, I have worked in other areas in Arizona and California and have seen dealt with stereotypes and discrimination for being a woman in management and for speaking English with a Mexican accent.
>
> Other interesting issues related to our own discrimination is embarrassment for being Mexican or having dark skin and New Mexicans. My husband is a pocho from New Mexico. He thinks he is Spanish and his family gets offended if they are called Mexicans. He is more Mexican than me! Ha Ha! His family has been in New Mexico for more than two hundred years and married the natives and Mexicans there. This was before New Mexico became part of the US. He is from Taos, NM, and I call it the land that time forgot. His family is the Cordovas, one of the founding families of Taos. The traditions and the Spanish that they speak is from two hundred years ago. The people there are very proud of their heritage, which they attribute to Spanish and Native Americans–not Mexicans.
>
> >From my mother’s side of the family, discrimination against dark skin (brown not black) and against Mexican traditions was strong. My mother and her family were from Tamazula, Jalisco and she moved to Sonora by the border as a pre-teen. My own family looked down on their own traditions. I grew up having turkey for Christmas instead of tamales, and my mother was quick to adapt any new American tradition like Thanksgiving. Being the rebel that I have always been, I live in this Arizona dessert and my skin is now darker as I tan easily (our weather is 110 degrees now!). I like a variety of music including corridos and corriditas to my mother’s dismay. I wear rebosos and have a good collection of them.
>
> I feel very fortunate and have assimilated the American culture well. The US is my country, and I am a proud American. Mexico is a part of me and Mexican traditions are part of my life. I have two different cultures that I balance and have found a comfortable mixture of both of them. I am looking for my roots because it is who I am.
>
>
>
> Excellente comentario! Se me salieron las lagrimas al leerlo. Naci en Sonora en una frontera y despues me mude unos cuantos metros al norte a una frontera de Arizona. Esta ciudad es como un paraiso para los nuevos emigrantes como yo. Mas del 95% de la poblacion habla espanol, incluyendo el correo y el ayuntamiento. Sin embargo he enfrentado descriminacion en otros lugares de Arizona y de California por ser una mujer en administracion de negocios y por hablar ingles con acento.
>
> Por parte del lado de mi mama la discriminacion era fuerte por el tono de la piel (moreno, no negro) y por las costumbres de Mexico. Mi mama y su familia son de Tamazula, Jalisco y mi mama se mudo a la frontera de Sonora antes de ser una adolecente. Mi propia familia desdenaba sus propias tradiciones. Yo creci teniendo pavo para navidad en lugar de tamales, y mi mama adoptaba rapidamente las costumbres americanas como el dia de accion de gracias. Debido a que siempre he sido rebelde y viviendo en Arizona mi piel se ha hecho mas obscura (tenemos ahorita temperaturas de mas de 110 grados F). Me gustan algunos corridos y las corriditas para admiracion de mi mama. Tambien me gustan y uso rebozos y tengo una colleccion de ellos.
>
> Me siento muy afortunada y he asimilado la cultura americana muy bien. Estados Unidos es mi patria y estoy orgullosa de ser estadounidense. Mexico forma parte de mi misma y las tradiciones mexicanas son parte de mi vida. Tengo dos culturas y he encontrado un buen balance para combinarlas. Estoy buscando mis raices porque esas raices me formaron y son lo que yo soy.
>
> Rosie Cordova

Posted : 09/07/2009 4:00 am

lunalatina1955

(@lunalatina1955)

Posts: 338

I observe my husband (born in Mexico) still do his math calculations in
Spanish, even though he came here at 10 years old.

Our second language becomes our academic and social language (for those of
us educated for the majority of our life in the US). How I wish I could
communicate as effectively in Spanish as I do in English.

The fact is that my ancestors had very little education and spoke Spanish
to communicate, but could not read or write. This translates to the
Spanish that I know….it is colloquial, limited to “ranchero” background (and as
a city dweller am often confused by the usage of verbs/nouns). Spanish is
the language of love for me, the language of my ancestors. As a young
one, I was asked to write letters to family members on their behalf – they
would dictate….and I would phonetically write.

Indeed, I am the last of the “Mohicans” on our Luna/Herrera side of the
family that can speak, read, and write Spanish….but it was not because I
studied the language…it was because of my personality….wanting to
communicate. I am deeply aware of my limitations….I feel like the “india” in
the Spanish household…especially when someone expects me to speak the
language of my ancestors with fluency….hmmm….I would argue that it is the
same process as losing our indigenous tongue….and could counter this
standard argument “why is it that you don’t speak our native tongue?” (My
husband’s grandmother was Tarrascan….but embarrassed to speak it because of
the dominant culture, except when she was around her people or angered or
being loving).

By the way, I am highly educated…possessing 3 masters degrees….

I suppose I could translate this….but it would not possess the strength
of someone who was truly versatile in the language….and if anyone cares
to….please translate this for the relatives left behind…..

Esperanza
Chicagoland area
**************Dell Studio XPS Desktop: Save up to $400 – Limited Time Offer
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Posted : 09/07/2009 4:30 am

rubenhernandez57

(@rubenhernandez57)

Posts: 43

Trusted Member

Esperanza,

Would you be related to any of the Luna/Herrera family in Pueblo, Colorado?

—– Original Message —–
From: Latina1955@aol.com
To: general@nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Wednesday, July 8, 2009 9:25:13 PM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Who we are

A long time ago, I learned that few of us are truly bi-lingual
(grandparents came to US during the early 1900’s).. That is….our emotional language
is our first language. For example, I speak Spanish with babies and when I
am loving or embracing someone with my presence. “O, que linda….que
chula…como to de adoro”….and of course anger….(smile).

I observe my husband (born in Mexico) still do his math calculations in
Spanish, even though he came here at 10 years old.

Our second language becomes our academic and social language (for those of
us educated for the majority of our life in the US). How I wish I could
communicate as effectively in Spanish as I do in English.

The fact is that my ancestors had very little education and spoke Spanish
to communicate, but could not read or write. This translates to the
Spanish that I know….it is colloquial, limited to “ranchero” background (and as
a city dweller am often confused by the usage of verbs/nouns). Spanish is
the language of love for me, the language of my ancestors. As a young
one, I was asked to write letters to family members on their behalf – they
would dictate….and I would phonetically write.

Indeed, I am the last of the “Mohicans” on our Luna/Herrera side of the
family that can speak, read, and write Spanish….but it was not because I
studied the language…it was because of my personality….wanting to
communicate. I am deeply aware of my limitations….I feel like the “india” in
the Spanish household…especially when someone expects me to speak the
language of my ancestors with fluency….hmmm….I would argue that it is the
same process as losing our indigenous tongue….and could counter this
standard argument “why is it that you don’t speak our native tongue?” (My
husband’s grandmother was Tarrascan….but embarrassed to speak it because of
the dominant culture, except when she was around her people or angered or
being loving).

By the way, I am highly educated…possessing 3 masters degrees….

I suppose I could translate this….but it would not possess the strength
of someone who was truly versatile in the language….and if anyone cares
to….please translate this for the relatives left behind…..

Esperanza
Chicagoland area
**************Dell Studio XPS Desktop: Save up to $400 – Limited Time Offer
( http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1222466512x1201463496/aol?redir=htt
p:%2F%2Faltfarm.mediaplex.com%2Fad%2Fck%2F12309%2D81939%2D1629%2D3)

Posted : 09/07/2009 5:45 am

lunalatina1955

(@lunalatina1955)

Posts: 338

I don’t think so but am unsure……I have been able to trace the Herrera
side of the family in Tlaltenango, but am stunted with the Luna side – this
is what I have been able to verify:

Felix Luna married (1851)
Maria de los Angeles Trejo (b) 8/5/1825: Parents: Jose Tomas Trejo(m)
5/16/1827 & Maria Tereza de Jesus Espinoza
1) Atanacio baptized 1855
2) Maria Petra bapt 6/30/1856
3) Margarito Luna bapt 6/12/1853 married (5/24/1876) Regina Herrera
Florensina Miramontes 5/2/1849 (married previously???)
1) Atanacio Luna Trejo bapt: 8/15/1855 m(10/21/1874)
Maria Florencia Corchado bapt:2/25/1858
1) Manuel Luna Herrera b 11/22/1888 d 1/21/1944 m. Norberta Herrera
Ynigues b 1894 d 3/6/1941
**************Dell Studio XPS Desktop: Save up to $400 – Limited Time Offer
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Posted : 09/07/2009 6:30 am

B-Driver

(@b-driver)

Posts: 11

Active Member

MMM. Since we’re on Luna subject.
How about Guerrero De Luna? Do you have anything on this one?
Thank advances..

Robert R
P+25

________________________________
From: “Latina1955@aol.com”
To: general@nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Thursday, July 9, 2009 12:13:02 AM
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Who we are

I don’t think so but am unsure……I have been able to trace the Herrera
side of the family in Tlaltenango, but am stunted with the Luna side – this
is what I have been able to verify:

Posted : 09/07/2009 3:30 pm

ojaurequireyes

(@ojaurequireyes)

Posts: 46

Very well said Esperanza. I think the majority of us who are second to third generation born in the US fall in this profile. From birth to my very early years, when not with my parents, I spent a great deal of time with my maternal grandparents who spoke only Spanish. Because of this I was fluent in Spanish until about age nine. Once entering school much of that fluency was lost as English dominated both social and personal life. My parents were both first generation US citizens and grew up during a time when speaking Spanish resulted in punishment in school, so although they often spoke to each other in Spanish, then spoke to us in English. I was lucky enough to have my grandmother until she died in 1987 at age 93 so I was able to keep up my Spanish, however, once she passed the frequency of the use of Spanish for me became pretty limited. Like you, I too and most of the cousins of my generation, are the “last of the Mohicans” when it comes to
speaking and writing Spanish.

Olivia
Rowland Heights, CA

________________________________
From: “Latina1955@aol.com”
To: general@nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Wednesday, July 8, 2009 9:25:13 PM
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Who we are

I observe my husband (born in Mexico) still do his math calculations in
Spanish, even though he came here at 10 years old.

By the way, I am highly educated…possessing 3 masters degrees….

Posted : 09/07/2009 5:15 pm

meef98367

(@meef98367)

Posts: 1036

Yes, Alice,

I was once told by a red-headed, blue-eyed Mexican that I should speak Spanish because of my “face”. Well, I guess I should speak Nahuatl or Tewa and not Spanish, since I have a Native American face and not a Spanish face. I told that guy that by his reasoning he should speak English because he looked like an Anglo. Se nos ve en la cara que somos indijenos, pues debemos hablar Nahuatl en vez de espanol. Ha!

Emilie
—– Original Message —–
From: AliceBB
To: general@nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Wednesday, July 08, 2009 8:49 PM
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Who we are

— auntyemfaustus@hotmail.com wrote:

From: “Emilie Garcia” <auntyemfaustus@hotmail.com>
To: <general@nuestrosranchos.org>
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Who we are
Date: Wed, 8 Jul 2009 10:48:43 -0700

Antonio,

Saludos cordiales,

Emilie
Port Orchard, Estado de Washington, Estados Unidos – USA

—– Original Message —–
From: Antonio Santillan<mailto:santillan59@hotmail.com>
To: general@nuestrosranchos.org<mailto:general@nuestrosranchos.org<mailto:general@nuestrosranchos.org>
Sent: Tuesday, July 07, 2009 3:27 PM
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Who we are

Saludos cordiales y felicidades al que comparte su historia y utiliza el español e ingles en su narracion

Antonio Santillan

> To: general@lists.nuestrosranchos.org<mailto:general@lists.nuestrosranchos.org<mailto:general@lists.nuestrosranchos.org>
> From: rcordovamba@aol.com<mailto:rcordovamba@aol.com<mailto:rcordovamba@aol.com>
> Date: Mon, 6 Jul 2009 20:40:57 -0700
> Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Who we are
>
> Great post! It brought tears to my eyes. I was born and raised in a border town in Sonora and later moved a few yards North of the fence and live in a border city in Arizona. This is a wonderful safe heaven for new immigrants like me. More than 95% of the population speaks Spanish, including the post office and city hall. However, I have worked in other areas in Arizona and California and have seen dealt with stereotypes and discrimination for being a woman in management and for speaking English with a Mexican accent.
>
> Other interesting issues related to our own discrimination is embarrassment for being Mexican or having dark skin and New Mexicans. My husband is a pocho from New Mexico. He thinks he is Spanish and his family gets offended if they are called Mexicans. He is more Mexican than me! Ha Ha! His family has been in New Mexico for more than two hundred years and married the natives and Mexicans there. This was before New Mexico became part of the US. He is from Taos, NM, and I call it the land that time forgot. His family is the Cordovas, one of the founding families of Taos. The traditions and the Spanish that they speak is from two hundred years ago. The people there are very proud of their heritage, which they attribute to Spanish and Native Americans–not Mexicans.
>
> >From my mother’s side of the family, discrimination against dark skin (brown not black) and against Mexican traditions was strong. My mother and her family were from Tamazula, Jalisco and she moved to Sonora by the border as a pre-teen. My own family looked down on their own traditions. I grew up having turkey for Christmas instead of tamales, and my mother was quick to adapt any new American tradition like Thanksgiving. Being the rebel that I have always been, I live in this Arizona dessert and my skin is now darker as I tan easily (our weather is 110 degrees now!). I like a variety of music including corridos and corriditas to my mother’s dismay. I wear rebosos and have a good collection of them.
>
> I feel very fortunate and have assimilated the American culture well. The US is my country, and I am a proud American. Mexico is a part of me and Mexican traditions are part of my life. I have two different cultures that I balance and have found a comfortable mixture of both of them. I am looking for my roots because it is who I am.
>
>
>
> Excellente comentario! Se me salieron las lagrimas al leerlo. Naci en Sonora en una frontera y despues me mude unos cuantos metros al norte a una frontera de Arizona. Esta ciudad es como un paraiso para los nuevos emigrantes como yo. Mas del 95% de la poblacion habla espanol, incluyendo el correo y el ayuntamiento. Sin embargo he enfrentado descriminacion en otros lugares de Arizona y de California por ser una mujer en administracion de negocios y por hablar ingles con acento.
>
> Por parte del lado de mi mama la discriminacion era fuerte por el tono de la piel (moreno, no negro) y por las costumbres de Mexico. Mi mama y su familia son de Tamazula, Jalisco y mi mama se mudo a la frontera de Sonora antes de ser una adolecente. Mi propia familia desdenaba sus propias tradiciones. Yo creci teniendo pavo para navidad en lugar de tamales, y mi mama adoptaba rapidamente las costumbres americanas como el dia de accion de gracias. Debido a que siempre he sido rebelde y viviendo en Arizona mi piel se ha hecho mas obscura (tenemos ahorita temperaturas de mas de 110 grados F). Me gustan algunos corridos y las corriditas para admiracion de mi mama. Tambien me gustan y uso rebozos y tengo una colleccion de ellos.
>
> Me siento muy afortunada y he asimilado la cultura americana muy bien. Estados Unidos es mi patria y estoy orgullosa de ser estadounidense. Mexico forma parte de mi misma y las tradiciones mexicanas son parte de mi vida. Tengo dos culturas y he encontrado un buen balance para combinarlas. Estoy buscando mis raices porque esas raices me formaron y son lo que yo soy.
>
> Rosie Cordova

Posted : 09/07/2009 9:00 pm

meef98367

(@meef98367)

Posts: 1036

Well said, Esperanza!

Emilie
—– Original Message —–
From: Latina1955@aol.com
To: general@nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Wednesday, July 08, 2009 9:25 PM
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Who we are

I observe my husband (born in Mexico) still do his math calculations in
Spanish, even though he came here at 10 years old.

By the way, I am highly educated…possessing 3 masters degrees….

Posted : 09/07/2009 9:15 pm

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