Victor, tengo mucha información de los Casillas, quisá tenga algo de tu rama.
Victor, I have information about the Casillas, I may have some of your brench.
Ruben Casillas M.
— El sáb 21-feb-09, Victor Casillas escribió:
De:: Victor Casillas
Asunto: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Why are we doing genealogy?
A: general@nuestrosranchos.org, general@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Fecha: sábado, 21 febrero, 2009, 4:01 pm
Jonathan,
Funny.
I’ve been asking myself why I WOULD want to seek my ancestry. I haven’t
done much but, what little history I know of the “conquest” is that
these invaders didn’t really bring their women and families to settle Nueva
Espana in the way the English did. Especially in the beginning, they mostly
raped the indigenous women and killed the ones that would try to fight them off.
Much like the slave owners in the united states, many were raped by their
European slavemasters, impregnated and left for dead. It’s been said that
“the Child is what the Mother is.” I suspect it would be much more
difficult to trace the lineage of our mother’s mother’s mother… How
many Mestizos are the result of rape whether married or not? Sure science says a
father is a father but, I don’t know if I would consider a man who raped my
mother and left her for dead to be my father.
I’m not putting genealogy down, these are just questions I’ve asked
myself and because of Jonathan’s question, am wondering if others have.
Sincerely,
Victorx
> To: general@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
> From: jonathan@mexicanfhr.com
> Date: Sat, 21 Feb 2009 09:42:21 -0800
> Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Why are we doing genealogy?
>
>
> I just wanted to ask the group, why are we doing genealogy? I have been
asked ti give a talk about why we do genealogy? It has made me think, about why
I started my genealogy about 30 years ago. And I just wanted to get, some more
ideas or thoughts from the group members.
>
> Jonathan
Ruben Casillas,
Thank-you, I do know that my father was born in El Valle de Guadalupe or very close to there. I suspect that I too, can trace my Casillas lineage to Martin Casillas, builder. I’ve heard that there is or was a book in print about that lineage by Albert Casillas. I am interested in purchasing that book, if available. As I said below I would like to know if my mother’s mother etc. is european or indigeonous but, this has proven to be much more difficult to trace.
Victorx
> Date: Sat, 21 Feb 2009 14:33:48 -0800
> From: rubenazo_casillas@yahoo.com.mx
> To: general@nuestrosranchos.org
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Why are we doing genealogy?
>
> Victor, tengo mucha información de los Casillas, quisá tenga algo de tu rama.
> Victor, I have information about the Casillas, I may have some of your brench.
>
> Ruben Casillas M.
>
> — El sáb 21-feb-09, Victor Casillas escribió:
>
> De:: Victor Casillas
> Asunto: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Why are we doing genealogy?
> A: general@nuestrosranchos.org, general@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
> Fecha: sábado, 21 febrero, 2009, 4:01 pm
>
> Jonathan,
>
>
>
> Funny.
>
>
>
> I’ve been asking myself why I WOULD want to seek my ancestry. I haven’t
> done much but, what little history I know of the “conquest” is that
> these invaders didn’t really bring their women and families to settle Nueva
> Espana in the way the English did. Especially in the beginning, they mostly
> raped the indigenous women and killed the ones that would try to fight them off.
> Much like the slave owners in the united states, many were raped by their
> European slavemasters, impregnated and left for dead. It’s been said that
> “the Child is what the Mother is.” I suspect it would be much more
> difficult to trace the lineage of our mother’s mother’s mother… How
> many Mestizos are the result of rape whether married or not? Sure science says a
> father is a father but, I don’t know if I would consider a man who raped my
> mother and left her for dead to be my father.
>
>
>
> I’m not putting genealogy down, these are just questions I’ve asked
> myself and because of Jonathan’s question, am wondering if others have.
>
>
>
> Sincerely,
>
>
>
> Victorx
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > To: general@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
> > From: jonathan@mexicanfhr.com
> > Date: Sat, 21 Feb 2009 09:42:21 -0800
> > Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Why are we doing genealogy?
> >
> >
> > I just wanted to ask the group, why are we doing genealogy? I have been
> asked ti give a talk about why we do genealogy? It has made me think, about why
> I started my genealogy about 30 years ago. And I just wanted to get, some more
> ideas or thoughts from the group members.
> >
> > Jonathan
> > — — — — — — — — — — — — —
> > Nuestros Ranchos General Mailing List
> >
> > To post, send email to:
> > general(at)nuestrosranchos.org
> >
> > To change your subscription, log on to:
> > http://www.nuestrosranchos.org
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Windows Live™ Hotmail®…more than just e-mail.
> http://windowslive.com/howitworks?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_t2_hm_justgotbetter_howitworks_022009
About 20 years ago at a Castanon family reunion I noticed my grandmother Juana Sanchez Castanon crying quietly as she watched the family. I asked her why and she said that in 50 years there would not be a Mexican left in our family. A great number of my generation, including me had married into so many different nationalities we look like a United Nations but very few spoke Spanish, had the classic dark features refered to as Mexican looking and our children did not claim Hispanic heritage at all. I was one of the few remaining grandkids who understood some Spanish but did not speak it either. I was also from a generation that did not take pride in our heritage since we were told we were different, inferior and only good for labor by our community. I felt it my “calling” to try to learn what our history was. I’ve been working on this quest for 15 years now. I not only have an immense sense of pride in myself and my ancestors but have a sense
of responsibility to those who came before me. I carry their reputation, their name and their genes. In a time when so many feel disconnected I was able to tell family at the reunions who their ancestors were, what they did and how they lived to a point. I’ve learned Mexican history by doing records and learned enough Spanish to make the records come alive again. I don’t do this alone, the ancestors have a hand in it I believe and being able to work with a group like Nuestrosranchos and through the Family History centers makes this all possible. I hope to leave a legacy for the people of El Durazno, district of Jerez Zacatecas, the home of my grandparents Epitacio Castanon and Juana Sanchez and also for my maternal line Marcelino Gutierrez and Rafaela Villanueva Mendez from Tamazula Jalisco Mexico. I put my records on Rootsweb.com so anyone who is seeking family from that area can find a place to start connecting again. What good is
information if I hoard it in a drawer?
Linda Castanon-Long in Everett Wa.
— On Sat, 2/21/09, mexicanfhr wrote:
From: mexicanfhr
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Why are we doing genealogy?
To: general@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Date: Saturday, February 21, 2009, 9:42 AM
I just wanted to ask the group, why are we doing genealogy? I have been asked
ti give a talk about why we do genealogy? It has made me think, about why I
started my genealogy about 30 years ago. And I just wanted to get, some more
ideas or thoughts from the group members.
Jonathan
When I was a little kid my grandfather Hermenegildo Romo Franco used to to take me with him to visit people all over the valle de guadalupe, and later tepatitlan. My grandfather died but when I went to el valle I would go around visting people and they would remember that I was Mere’s grandson and welcome me in their homes. Sometimes I would make these visits with my tio abuelo, el Doctor Rito Romo Franco. He would tell me that this person was my second cousin because of so and so, and that person was my aunt bcause and so on. He would show me his genealogy records and talk on and on about family. These memories of my grandfather and uncle inspired me to keep visiting all the people and I have made life long friends and memories. After my tio Rito died I started keeping my own genealogy records. I started just by collecting other peoples work. I began finding inconsistencies in the different genealogies and started researching to find the correct information. I never planned on making it a hobby. It became an addiction when I worked of Santo Toribio’s tree to see where it hooked up with my family tree. My family had often said that my grandfather and him were cousins but no one could actually give details, not even my tio rito. I found the connection making my grandfather and my tio Rito 3rd cousins to Santo Toribio Romo.
And by continuing the family research I had an excuse to continue visiting people and asking questions regarding our families all in the name of research.
Maybe I just want to reexperience my visits as a kid.
> To: general@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
> From: jonathan@mexicanfhr.com
> Date: Sat, 21 Feb 2009 09:42:21 -0800
> Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Why are we doing genealogy?
>
>
> I just wanted to ask the group, why are we doing genealogy? I have been asked ti give a talk about why we do genealogy? It has made me think, about why I started my genealogy about 30 years ago. And I just wanted to get, some more ideas or thoughts from the group members.
>
> Jonathan
Jonathan, why did you start doing genealogy?
Linda in Everett
— On Sat, 2/21/09, mexicanfhr wrote:
From: mexicanfhr
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Why are we doing genealogy?
To: general@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Date: Saturday, February 21, 2009, 9:42 AM
I just wanted to ask the group, why are we doing genealogy? I have been asked
ti give a talk about why we do genealogy? It has made me think, about why I
started my genealogy about 30 years ago. And I just wanted to get, some more
ideas or thoughts from the group members.
Jonathan
My grandparents and later my parents were into family history. My
grandmother made coloring books of our ancestors. A basic character with
clothing that told us about the person. She later stitched these images
on a quilt. When my mother started she would tell the same stories over
and over. I thought, family history was for old people and some day I
would be involved in it. Today at 30 I don’t feel so old, but I am a very
passionate genealogist. I am working on my husbands lines. This venture
has healed the relationships I have had with his family. I’m not sure
what the problem was to begin with…….but those hard feeling have gone
away. I am learning about the living and those who have passed. My
husband knew he was related to people but he could never tell me there
names or how. Now I remind him, I take him to visit…….These are
wonderful people who have stories, wisdom, thoughts that enrich our
lives. And sometimes we discover unpleasant things as well, but I am no
ones judge. I have no idea of the intent of heart, or circumstances. I am
glad to know they were as unperfect as me or they were human. I can
connect with that! I feel these ancestors and their JOY when they are
remember and discovered. Old traditions and misunderstanding seem to wash
away and heal our broken hearts.
And in all honesty, I really wanted to know who my children could date. (
:
Jokae
—– Original Message —–
From: mexicanfhr
To: general@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Why are we doing genealogy?
Date: Sat, 21 Feb 2009 09:42:21 -0800 (PST)
I just wanted to ask the group, why are we doing genealogy? I have
been asked ti give a talk about why we do genealogy? It has made
me think, about why I started my genealogy about 30 years ago. And
I just wanted to get, some more ideas or thoughts from the group
members.
Jonathan
For me it started almost 5 years ago, when I was 12. In church we were taught it was important to know where we come from and from whom. I have a couple of Mulatto (half black/half white) lines, mestizos, couple of native American and spanish lines. What a mix! For me I started because my grandfather and mother were both doing genealogy and I caught the bug at age of 12. As i go through my geenalogy I can almost feel them its a special feeling that I cannot describe. Knowing that all tthose who have died and are still alived made me. We can know our roots and take them into the future. From genealogy I have learned were I come from and where I will go. Also it is for my future descendants.
-Daniel Méndez Camino
I originally thought mulatto meant half black and half white. But being black is relative and on a slope. When I found a mulatto in the family I assumed that he was half black and half white. My assumption was wrong. this identified mulato was the son of another mulatto and from the look at the information this second mulatto was himself the son of another mulatto and a “white ” person. This made the first mulatto found in the line at the most one eighth black and 7/8 ths white and possibly even less black. It also works the other way. Today you can claim descendency from an indian tribe if you are 1/8 here in the United States. In some areas in Mexico, The early spanish/mexicans felt you were whatever you had 7/8 of so if you were 1/8 indian and 7/8 white than you can claim to be white. In other areas they would look at your skin color and decide from that. therefore you could have full siblings classified differently according to their percieved skin color.
________________________________
From: general-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org on behalf of mendezdelcamino
Sent: Sat 2/21/2009 5:20 PM
To: general@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Why are we doing Genealogy?
For me it started almost 5 years ago, when I was 12. In church we were taught it was important to know where we come from and from whom. I have a couple of Mulatto (half black/half white) lines, mestizos, couple of native American and spanish lines. What a mix! For me I started because my grandfather and mother were both doing genealogy and I caught the bug at age of 12. As i go through my geenalogy I can almost feel them its a special feeling that I cannot describe. Knowing that all tthose who have died and are still alived made me. We can know our roots and take them into the future. From genealogy I have learned were I come from and where I will go. Also it is for my future descendants.
-Daniel Méndez Camino
Jonathan,
I started doing genealogy back in the early 80s when I used to take my mother to see her siblings in Los Angeles and in New Mexico. My father had passed 20 years before.
I used to listen to my mother and her siblings speak that New Mexican lingo that my father, who was from Zacatecas and spoke good Castellan, would so often criticize. My husband, descended from Altenos, also criticized their Spanish. Those “Manitos”, as they called themselves, were a breed all their own. I discovered through my research that they were descended from Pueblo Indian tribes and Spaniards of hidden Jewish descent. I found a cousin who was a war captain for our tribe of Piro-Manso-Tewa. They didn’t like the Mexicans “del otro lado” and vice-versa.
My mother had to learn to cook “Mexican” food when she moved to California. Her people had been isolated in the pueblos of New Mexico since the 1600s when they had been baptized and Hispanicized. I was able to trace their ancestry back to the early 1700s up until the time they were first baptized with Christian names and their real Indian names were not written down. They took the Spanish surnames of their godfathers. So that ends the trail for me on my mother’s side.
I used to hear my mother and her siblings speak of their Tia Lauteria. Lauteria and other names sounded so strange to me. At first I used to get bored and leave the gathering and go to the nearest mall. Then, as I listened more to their “te acuerdas de” I started getting intrigued about their lives when they were growing up, so different from mine at the time. I wanted to know more. I got hooked. I started to ask my mother and aunt for as many of the names and relations of those in earlier generations as far back as they could remember. They remembered a lot, but my subsequent research showed they had gotten some info wrong. Mother has been gone since 1987, and my aunt is now 96. She is the only ones left.
Then I got interested in my father’s ancestry. He was from Zacatecas; his uncle and father came to the US in 1913 when my father was 10 years old to escape the horrors of the Revolucion. My mother had not liked his “Mexican” relatives and avoided them. So I could not get any info from them. Thank goodness for the Family Search records. All I could remember my father telling me about our ancestry was that we were “mestizos” with a little French blood. I used to hate my maiden name Olague. I wished it had been something simple like Garcia or Hernandez. In grammar school the name was hard for people to pronounce and the kids thought it an “ugly” or “funny” name.
I had heard my father say that his great-grandfather had been known as “El Frances”, that he had come from France as a soldier with the French Army, that he had blue eyes. Well, I found no French in his lines. I think that because the French were light-skinned and blue-eyed, they thought anyone with that coloring was French, forgetting or not knowing that their Spanish ancestors had not mixed totally with the Indians. His paternal grandmother (Tinajero/Suriano/Felix, Flores) had only Espanoles and Mulatos, very few Indio. His paternal grandfather (Olague) had only espanoles going back to the 1500s. I did once hear someone tell my father his surname was Basque, and he said yes, that’s right. I later visited a town in Navarra with that name. The people there were all light-skinned and blue-eyed.
I have found it intriguing that some people of Mexican descent claim royal ancestry from the European kings and from the native Aztec kings, but that is disputed and can’t be proved beyond the fact that the conquistadores were not really of royal blood, but were royal retainers who were given the names of their royal patrons; they were public servants who were given titles for their service, as I learned from a Nuestros Ranchos member, Bertha Medina de Boehm who has given the group very good explanations of what is royal and what is not. As for Aztec ancestry, the native kings had thousands of concubines.
I now have two bookcases, six feet tall, with almost 100 binders of family trees and history and photos. Through Ancestry and Rootsweb I have met many cousins that I have helped. I can spend hours doing a basic tree for people who inquire for information. I even do trees and research for other people, non-Hispanics, and that takes me in a different direction in research. I am as pleased as they are when I make a breakthrough for them.
My Native American ancestors would say that it was not right to speak the names of the dead, that it disturbed their spirits and they couldn’t rest. However, I feel that some of my ancestors and my husband’s ancestors long dead speak to me; a name will pop up when I am trying to sleep or have been asleep, and a voice says, look up that name, and lo and behold, it leads to breaking down a brick wall. They say no one ever dies as long as you speak their name. However, other ancestors don’t want to be found, I think. They put up a brick wall, such as my father’s mother. All I know is her name and her parents’ names, and try as I have for years, they continue to hide. I know nothing of those lines.
Tell us why you do genealogy, Jonathan, besides being a member of LDS Church.
Emilie
Port Orchard, WA
I started doing genealogy when I was a child, only I didn’t know
that’s what I was doing. I was gathering information from the elders
in my father’s family. I was the only child allowed to eat at the
grownups’ dinner table because I kept quiet and didn’t squirm around.
Then when I was a little older I asked questions specifically about
family and then quit cold turkey for years until I was in my 30s where
I did some oral interviews with my mother AND my father, separately.
Then in my 40s, I went whole hog (and having learned from my then-job
how to conduct data gathering, interviews, and citation techniques)
and learned a whole lot!!!!
Isn’t it funny that someone (with the initials MLE 🙂 ) with an
unusual surname (which I discovered is in my ancestry) wished for a
common surname, whereas, I, who had a super common Spanish surname
always loved my great-grandmother’s surname of Saldivar, just because
it WAS so unusual. And it was THAT surname and the great
recordkeeping of the Mexicans that enabled me to unravel my family
history on my father’s side. Genealogy is like putting together a
great big puzzle, a hobby I find very relaxing.
On my mother’s side, I’ve discovered that ALL of my Scottish mother’s
Great-great-grandparents were Irish and even though she was a 3rd
generation Scot, her true Scottish blood came through the ancestry of
her Irish-born mother. And much of this information was gathered
AFTER both my parents passed away…also, I think that God was
teaching me patience because had I tried to find this information
sooner than I did, it would not have been available to me. It hadn’t
been released to the public then. Still, I would love to have shared
my findings with my parents. I’m the one who told my mother what HER
grandmother’s maiden name was. I was named Margarita, a Spanish
version of my non-Hispanic mother’s sister Margaret, who lived in
Canada and who I thought was mean and crabby. (Turned out I was
wrong, she ended up being a great person.) I knew Mom and Aunt
Margaret’s grandmother’s name was also Margaret but I didn’t know
until I found a birth record that showed my great-grandmother was
named after her OWN grandmother. Now that I’m a grandmother and a
great-grandmother, I don’t have anyone named after me, to my regret,
but at least, due to my genealogy recordings, I hope to not be
forgotten like so many of the ancestors I have uncovered. Even the
historical ones, like Juan de Onate, are relatively forgotten because
his name rarely comes up in history books anymore. That’s pretty much
why I do genealogy. Marge Vallazza:)
On Feb 21, 2009, at 11:42 AM, mexicanfhr wrote:
I just wanted to ask the group, why are we doing genealogy? I have
been asked ti give a talk about why we do genealogy? It has made me
think, about why I started my genealogy about 30 years ago. And I
just wanted to get, some more ideas or thoughts from the group members.
Jonathan
Oh, yes, I forgot to add that genealogy enabled me to discover where
the policystic kidney disease entered our family in Scotland, Canada,
and the US. My mother’s father and 2 of his brother’s died of it.
Two of my mother’s sisters had it and died of its consequences. My
aunt Margaret had eight kids, five had PKD but are still alive because
medical treatment is much better. My aunt Sheila’s only child has it
and, although married, my cousin does not want children so as to not
pass this on to them. Blessedly, none of my sisters nor I have it. It
came in through my ancestress Margaret–my great-great-great
grandmother. I’d never have found where the PKD came in at earlier
because the records in Scotland weren’t made available sooner than I
found them.:) Marge V.:)
On Feb 21, 2009, at 11:42 AM, mexicanfhr wrote:
I just wanted to ask the group, why are we doing genealogy? I have
been asked ti give a talk about why we do genealogy? It has made me
think, about why I started my genealogy about 30 years ago. And I
just wanted to get, some more ideas or thoughts from the group members.
Jonathan
I am third generation and so I had a mother, (father died when I was 3) who was fully Mexican-American, she only spoke English to her children, Spanish to her family and Spanglish with her friends.
Like my husband with the same experience– we are 3rd and 4th generation, depending which side you count, our parents did not have any interest in Mexico. They were children of the Great Depression and served in World War II, some in WWI.
I will never understand why not.
When I was about 8 my father’s birth certificate was taken out and I was thrilled, just thrilled to see this absolutely exotic name where my paternal grandfather was born: Teocaltiche, Jalisco. It took me until 1994 searching LDS records to find my grandfather’s baptismal record.
Also, my maternal grandmother had for her era done an awful thing by deserting her husband, my natural grandfather in San Antonio Texas and getting a divorce. I always hated being the half-cousin and half niece. My step-grandfather(wonderful) was an elegant man from Guadalajara and a tailor by trade. I always felt the absence of my history.
I found my relatives in San Antonio and have visited and met my mother’s cousins. Her three half-siblings all died before I could find them. Two within weeks of finding them. One sister died three days before my letter got to her home and children, who did not know about grandpa’s first marriage or thought he had been married and widowed, so Alicia I was the skeleton that jumped out of the closet. Boo! I have not met them yet, but we correspond. I am not sure that most of them care to establish any relationship. But I am happy to have solved for me the mystery.
The final legend is of my maternal side, who served as servants to a shipping family. The two girls, formerly servants children)(Surname:Mares)a grandma and aunt were adopted by this family and settled in Merida,Yucatan. One of the girls married and settled in Pinos, Zacatecas into the Aguilar family who then married the son of the harp teacher Estevan Cubillos.
I have found the Aguilars still in Pinos. But the Cubillos seem to be lost and no one seems to have an interest in genealogy with this surname. I wonder if I will ever crack this one.
Sylvia Rodriguez Robles
