Hi Ed, please forgive me if my last post to you sounded a little pointed, It wasn’t my intention and I do apologize if there was a misunderstanding. Of course I realize that our DNA is only a small percentage of the wider picture that makes us who we are , I also agree that DNA results cannot give us the truth of our families conception, here are two good examples ; When the Moors invaded Spain, many Hispano Goths and Hispano Romans converted to Islam so they could retain some of there lands and status. Were we do dig up the bones of one of these fellows and test their DNA it would not show that these men converted to Islam, as with Judaism, there is no Islamic gene. Now I do agree that DNA studies will give us a good picture of a group of people who in all likelihood may be of a certain faith, but we cannot say for sure. Also alot is made of the Celts in Spain. Recent genetic studies in Spain have proven that the true Celts left a very small imprint on the genetics of modern Spaniards Hispanics. The label Celt, like Jew or Moor is a name used to identify a large group of people and put them in a box, nice and tidy. The true Celts are from the areas of Central Europe and into France where they were known as Gauls. The Irish, Scots and Welsh, along with the Gallegos of Spain call themselves Celts, but this is a modern creation and incorrect.

DNA evidence has shown that these people belong to the Atlantic Model haplotype group, and they share DNA with the Basques, whom history does not identify as Celts. It was the shared material culture of these people, which was influenced by the true Celtic cultures,the Hallstatt and La Tene. If a Japanese man wears blue jeans, a Bruce Sprintsteen t-shirt and baseball cap, does this make him an American ? No, the same with these ancient tribes, there material goods may have been Celtic in design, but it was through trade and influence that it came to them.

I whole heartedly agree with you about the stupidity in regards to purity of blood, and here is where I would like to make a point. I want to make clear that I would not be ashamed of any Jewish ancestry, as I said in my previous post, I am proud of my ancestors, what and whom ever they were. But I do find it troubling that some, not you specifically, are very quick to label results as Jewish , Moorish, Celtic and so on. DNA predates any of the formation of these cultures, of course I’m not saying that it cannot be used to identify possible groups, but we are too quick to label. This can be said for my own DNA results, I have to admit is is nice to entertain the thought that I share DNA with Ancient Greeks, Macedonians, Thracians and Illyrians. The modern populations where these ancient people lived have the highest concentration of E-V13 on the planet, but because I share DNA with a Greek does that make me a practitioner of the Greek Orthodox faith ?

I have a graph that shows the percentage of haplogroups in Spain and surrounding countries in relation to the Sephardic Jews. The two largest haplogroups attributed to these wonderful people are J and J2, at 25% and 22% respectively. The next two are G at 15% and R1b at 13%, E1b1b1a2 E V-13 shows at 3 % total. Does this mean that everyone who has J2 or G DNA has Jewish ancestry ? absolutely not, does it mean that someone with E-V13 cannot have Jewish ancestry, again, no.

Sorry to drone on, I will attach a link to the graph I spoke of as soon as I find it so others can have a look, My best to you Ed… Robert~

Hi Mendez, very interesting post. I’ve never had the pleasure of visiting my father’s birthplace, San Jose De Bazarte in Los Altos. My great grandfather is buried under the alter in the small church there, from what I hear my family were haciendados who were one of the first spanish familes to settle there. I have pictures of them and they were all tall, blonde haired and blue eyed except for my grandfather who was tall, but had jet black hair. They were all horsemen, as many in Los Altos are, according to my grandmother, the Gonzalez’s lived in the saddle.

They did also intermarry with their 2nd and 3rd cousins of the Casillas clan, which is also very interesting. Another interesting note, I read in a study that when the Visgoths migrated out of there original homeland, one of the stops they made before ending up in Spain was the Balkans, where my DNA Haplogroup is found in high numbers. It’s also noted via historical evidence that other non gothic groups joined them on their migrations, such as the Alans, who were a Samartian Scythic people. Who knows ? maybe some Thracians did the same and that’s how my DNA ended up in Spain ? Thanks for your great post ! Robert Gonzalez ~

I thought Limpieza de Sangre meant that seminarians had to prove they had no Muslim or Jewish blood before they were allowed to take holy orders. I guess at first only Europeans were allowed to be priests? I see that there are microfilms of records of those proceedings. In Mexico, you have many Indio or Mestizo priests, not just white priests. By what date was that Limpieza de Sangre business put to rest officially?

Emilie
Port Orchard, WA
—– Original Message —–
From: Daniel M�ndez del Camino
To: general@nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Wednesday, July 01, 2009 10:23 PM
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Y-DNA and Jews

The Visigoths still exist today, in Spain and Spanish America. Spaniards are a mixture of Europeans, Celtic, Goth (Germanic) Suevic, Nordic and many more. The south tends to exist the Jewish and Arabic connection. While the north tends to be more of that Catholic blood. Essentially the Spaniards of today are the visigoths of the past. Limpieza de Sangre is a difficult thing to explain at times and very harsh to hear, essentially its to ‘whiten’ oneself and their descendants. This usually happened when a mestizo child (that of a European and Native American) essentially that Mestizo would marry white to make a castizo and then castizo married white again to make full European, hiding its Native American genes, from then on they would keep marrying other Spanish. If a mestizo would come along one day the whole process would repeat. A perfect example of Limpirza de Sangre would be our Moctezuma connection, Isabel married Hernan Cortes, Leonor married Valderrama, then Petronila married Navarro, who had Ana Franca. then he married Lope Esparza. By this time, no one would ever guess they would have descended from Moctezuma, as they would have looked like the average European child. It just shows the stuff our ancestors did to crazy extremes. Actuall a saying of Los Altos states, us alteños as los ‘Godos’.

“Son los de este pueblo (Los Altos de Jalisco)

de sangre de godos

todos son parientes,

y enemigos todos.”

MAriano Gonzalez Leal startes talking about the alteños and their noble ancestors that of the Visigoths and the Hidalgos. The amazing book he wrote is dedicated to Los Altos.

_________________________________________________________________
See how Windows® connects the people, information, and fun that are part of your life
http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/119463819/direct/01/

Here is the link to a PDF I talked about in a previous link, It’s very informative. Check it out: sd-1.archive-host.com/membres/up/…/ThegeneticlegacyallGraphs.pdf

Robert,

Gee, what you say is very interesting, but, if like you say, “quick to label results as Jewish , Moorish, Celtic and so on. DNA predates any of the formation of these cultures”, then why do the DNA studies? Mr. Greenspan of Family Tree DNA told me that he started the program to try to trace ancestry back to Moses and Aaron. If they can link you back to Cohen ancestry, then you are probably descended from Moses, or the priest class. He didn’t say it in those words, but that is what I understood. There is a Catholic priest in New Mexico whose DNA linked him to the Cohen ancestors. He is proud of it. I guess he feels he is in the right profession by ancestry.

Also, my husband is what you would call an “alteno”, tall, and very white. He knew that his mother’s ancestors, the Acostas, had been very prominent Jews in Spain, then they converted to Catholicism when forced to; I guess they call them “maranos”. When I was having my hair done in Mexico City once, the hairdresser looked at my husband and asked me where he was from. She said that he looked like a “norteno”, and I asked her what she meant. She said he looked like someone from Jalisco, a “tapatio”. Never having gone to Jalisco, I don’t know what the majority of people there look like nor that their appearance would be recognizable to someone from another area of Mexico. I didn’t think people from Jalisco were called “norteno”. I thought only Anglos from America were called that.

Emilie
Port Orchard, WA
—– Original Message —–
From: gandalf3.1@netzero.com
To: general@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Thursday, July 02, 2009 11:25 AM
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Y-DNA and Jews

Hi Ed, please forgive me if my last post to you sounded a little pointed, It wasn’t my intention and I do apologize if there was a misunderstanding. Of course I realize that our DNA is only a small percentage of the wider picture that makes us who we are , I also agree that DNA results cannot give us the truth of our families conception, here are two good examples ; When the Moors invaded Spain, many Hispano Goths and Hispano Romans converted to Islam so they could retain some of there lands and status. Were we do dig up the bones of one of these fellows and test their DNA it would not show that these men converted to Islam, as with Judaism, there is no Islamic gene. Now I do agree that DNA studies will give us a good picture of a group of people who in all likelihood may be of a certain faith, but we cannot say for sure. Also alot is made of the Celts in Spain. Recent genetic studies in Spain have proven that the true Celts left a very small imprint on the genetics of mode
r
n Spaniards Hispanics. The label Celt, like Jew or Moor is a name used to identify a large group of people and put them in a box, nice and tidy. The true Celts are from the areas of Central Europe and into France where they were known as Gauls. The Irish, Scots and Welsh, along with the Gallegos of Spain call themselves Celts, but this is a modern creation and incorrect.

DNA evidence has shown that these people belong to the Atlantic Model haplotype group, and they share DNA with the Basques, whom history does not identify as Celts. It was the shared material culture of these people, which was influenced by the true Celtic cultures,the Hallstatt and La Tene. If a Japanese man wears blue jeans, a Bruce Sprintsteen t-shirt and baseball cap, does this make him an American ? No, the same with these ancient tribes, there material goods may have been Celtic in design, but it was through trade and influence that it came to them.

I whole heartedly agree with you about the stupidity in regards to purity of blood, and here is where I would like to make a point. I want to make clear that I would not be ashamed of any Jewish ancestry, as I said in my previous post, I am proud of my ancestors, what and whom ever they were. But I do find it troubling that some, not you specifically, are very quick to label results as Jewish , Moorish, Celtic and so on. DNA predates any of the formation of these cultures, of course I’m not saying that it cannot be used to identify possible groups, but we are too quick to label. This can be said for my own DNA results, I have to admit is is nice to entertain the thought that I share DNA with Ancient Greeks, Macedonians, Thracians and Illyrians. The modern populations where these ancient people lived have the highest concentration of E-V13 on the planet, but because I share DNA with a Greek does that make me a practitioner of the Greek Orthodox faith ?

I have a graph that shows the percentage of haplogroups in Spain and surrounding countries in relation to the Sephardic Jews. The two largest haplogroups attributed to these wonderful people are J and J2, at 25% and 22% respectively. The next two are G at 15% and R1b at 13%, E1b1b1a2 E V-13 shows at 3 % total. Does this mean that everyone who has J2 or G DNA has Jewish ancestry ? absolutely not, does it mean that someone with E-V13 cannot have Jewish ancestry, again, no.

Sorry to drone on, I will attach a link to the graph I spoke of as soon as I find it so others can have a look, My best to you Ed… Robert~

Hi Emilie , Thank for the reply, perhaps I should gone into a little more detail, my apologies. I am aware of the Cohen marker and yes, in some cases you can identify a specific ethnic group via DNA, absolutely. The issue I have is this, I will use my own group as an example. I know a bit more about it than others, the haplotype E contains varios sub clades, E-V13 and E-M81 are two I will use here to illustrate my point. E1b1b1a2, shorthand E-V13 is found at it’s highest levels the Balkans, which includes Greece,Macedonia and Albania just to name a few Balkan countries. It is found at it’s highest rates worldwide there, in someplaces as many as 47 percent of men have this marker, that is a staggering amount. Therefore, it can be speculated that the Ancient inhabitants of the Balkans, Illyrians, Macedonians and Thracians carried this marker, but it was inherited before the division of tribes, before there were such people as Thracians etc.

So here we see a marker that is common to several different peoples not one specific, therefore, it was in existence before tribal divisions and cannot be applied to one specific group. It is not the “Thracian” marker, rather it is the Balkan marker. On to E-M81, this marker IS specific to one ethnic group, and it is known as the Berber marker, over 90% of the male Berber population carrys this marker, another staggering statistic. But , here is the thing, the Balkan marker is found at very, very low levels in North Africa, according to some studies at 0.09 percent, while the M-81 marker can be found in the Balkans, it is a recent arrival,not something that developed locally but was introduced at a late date, in the modern era.

So, here we see even though these two markers are included in the same Haplotype group, they cannot be identified as the same or even very similar.Therefore we cannot say that every person who carries the E marker is Berber, but it’s sub clade E-M81 can be used to identify the Berbers. If someone is in the J2 group they cannot all be identified as Jews, but if you have the Cohen marker and fall into the sub clade, then yes, you can identify Jewish heritage. Your husband is from Los Altos and aware of his Jewish roots as well as being similar in apperence to my family ( tall, fair) , this does not mean that all the inhabitants of Los Altos who are fair skinned have Jewish roots.

My only desire is to avoid stereotyping, to come to the truth of the matter before putting one in a box. I have had so many people come comment that I do not look Mexican, as if you had to look a certain way to call yourself Mexican, and truth be told, I get this more from Mexicanos than anyone else. We’ve allowed ourselves to become narrow minded, to put everyone and everything into a category. It can be said that DNA studies do the same thing right ? I suppose everything has it’s good and bad points. Robert~

Hi Robert and Emilie et al. About Jews and Los Altos, there is some jewish origin in some families. One is the infamous case of the Padilla Dávila they have Jewish blood, not sure how but in Retoños I by Mariano Gonzalez Leal, it states that they were able to assilimate with the alteños eveenthough by law it was ilegal to marry a jew, because of herecy. I come from the Padillas at least once I believe So I guess I do have jewish connection. About looking Mexican thats absurd, I hate it when people say “you don’t look Mexican” as if we all looked the same. Not sure why in Mexico, Europe and Latin America when someone thinks of a Mexican they usually picture the colonial, fair skinned person but in the US they picture a more Native American. I am Mexican and I always picture a fair-skinned person possibly due to the influence I had as a child to Los Altos. All my cousins look just like I do. Thats a shock and very offensive when people say I dont look Mexican. Mexico has all colors, Brown, tan, white, black and anything in between just like the US we are a pluricultural nation. Europeans, Native Americans, African, and so on. People can be ignorant if they dont know their history, I had a teacher once who didnt even know Europeans arrived in Mexico much less the Spanish language came from Europe! Actually it was two teachers, I responded by saying, “Europeans did come to Mexico in the 16th Century how else did we get European names? Fernández, García etc. Spanish comes from Europe, in Spain where they speak Spanish. They also though Spain was in Latin America. Shows how much people can be ignorant.

_________________________________________________________________
Stay up to date on your PC, the Web, and your mobile phone with Windows Live
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Hey Daniel, it is crazy in regards to stereo typing any ethnic group and the way they look. It is true that most, but not all, of Anglo America thinks all Mexicans look and act the same. So many have no clue about the different groups that make up the modern Mexican, and forget about Spain ! George W. Bush himself thought Spain was located in South America ! One funny note about not looking hispanic latino is that on more than one occasion I’ve caught people talking about me or my wife in Spanish because they don’t realize I SPEAK SPANISH ! When I reply to them in Spanish, the looks on their faces are priceless. Robert~

Un comentario a todos los compañeros, no todos entendemos el ingles, de tal manera que no participamos aun teniendo ganas y datos que aportar a los distintos temas, sugerencia no podrian tambien escribirlos en español y asi aumentar el numero de participantes en las discuciones.

Saludos cordiales

Antonio Santillan

> From: auntyemfaustus@hotmail.com
> To: general@nuestrosranchos.org
> Date: Thu, 2 Jul 2009 12:17:46 -0700
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Y-DNA and Jews
>
> I thought Limpieza de Sangre meant that seminarians had to prove they had no Muslim or Jewish blood before they were allowed to take holy orders. I guess at first only Europeans were allowed to be priests? I see that there are microfilms of records of those proceedings. In Mexico, you have many Indio or Mestizo priests, not just white priests. By what date was that Limpieza de Sangre business put to rest officially?
>
> Emilie
> Port Orchard, WA
> —– Original Message —–
> From: Daniel M�ndez del Camino
> To: general@nuestrosranchos.org
> Sent: Wednesday, July 01, 2009 10:23 PM
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Y-DNA and Jews
>
>
>
> The Visigoths still exist today, in Spain and Spanish America. Spaniards are a mixture of Europeans, Celtic, Goth (Germanic) Suevic, Nordic and many more. The south tends to exist the Jewish and Arabic connection. While the north tends to be more of that Catholic blood. Essentially the Spaniards of today are the visigoths of the past. Limpieza de Sangre is a difficult thing to explain at times and very harsh to hear, essentially its to ‘whiten’ oneself and their descendants. This usually happened when a mestizo child (that of a European and Native American) essentially that Mestizo would marry white to make a castizo and then castizo married white again to make full European, hiding its Native American genes, from then on they would keep marrying other Spanish. If a mestizo would come along one day the whole process would repeat. A perfect example of Limpirza de Sangre would be our Moctezuma connection, Isabel married Hernan Cortes, Leonor married Valderrama, then Petronila married Navarro, who had Ana Franca. then he married Lope Esparza. By this time, no one would ever guess they would have descended from Moctezuma, as they would have looked like the average European child. It just shows the stuff our ancestors did to crazy extremes. Actuall a saying of Los Altos states, us alteños as los ‘Godos’.
>
>
>
> “Son los de este pueblo (Los Altos de Jalisco)
>
> de sangre de godos
>
> todos son parientes,
>
> y enemigos todos.”
>
>
>
> MAriano Gonzalez Leal startes talking about the alteños and their noble ancestors that of the Visigoths and the Hidalgos. The amazing book he wrote is dedicated to Los Altos.
>
>
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> See how Windows® connects the people, information, and fun that are part of your life
> http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/119463819/direct/01/

That saying explains the use of the images of knights, Germanic looking to me, in this video, which I like a lot. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SBLgnIUMGPo

Esa frase explica el uso de las imagenes de caballeros medievales, que a mi parecen tipo Aleman, en el video, que me gusta mucho http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SBLgnIUMGPo

Armando

Hi Armando,

I also love that ‘Alteño’ channel on youtube they post great videos on our culture. I remember as a child I would always be told of stories, ‘Los conquistadores, El Cid, Don Quijote, El Rey, Alfonso I, La Conquista’, Then old stories of the revolution. I think ‘Los Altos’ has a unique culture then the rest of Méjico, a region of one of a kind. Like my grandfather says, “Nunca olvidaremos nuestra Madre Patria, España”. I was able to live in ‘Los Altos’ when I was 6 to abt 7 years old. So abt 8-9 months, it was the best experience to see my grandparents. The saying is true though eventhough we all come from the first (not sure if too say Spanish, b/c they were other Europeans too) families, all the ‘alteños’ were enemies at the same time. My grandfathers uncles and cousins killed each other in a duel in 1950. Over the love of their cousin and some personal hatred towards each other.

-Daniel Méndez del Camino

_________________________________________________________________
Color coding for safety: Windows Live Hotmail alerts you to suspicious email.
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I agree with Antonio Santillan. I do not speak Spanish, even though
my father was born in Jalisco. It was forbidden in our house (except
when he and my mother had secrets not for children’s ears). It is
difficult to follow everything on this list unless a person is
bilingual. My fondest wish would be to have a translating angel who
would magically translate all the emails into both Spanish and
English so we could all participate in whatever discussion interests
us. Valuable information would not be missed.

Maybe, one of these days, there will be such an invention for the net.

Linda

On Jul 3, 2009, at 5:03 PM, general-request@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
wrote:

> Message: 3
> Date: Thu, 2 Jul 2009 23:32:10 +0000
> From: Antonio Santillan
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Y-DNA and Jews
> To:
> Message-ID:
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=”utf-8″
>
>
> Un comentario a todos los compa?eros, no todos entendemos el
> ingles, de tal manera que no participamos aun teniendo ganas y
> datos que aportar a los distintos temas, sugerencia no podrian
> tambien escribirlos en espa?ol y asi aumentar el numero de
> participantes en las discuciones.
>
>
>
> Saludos cordiales
>
>
>
> Antonio Santillan
>

Linda,
why forbidden?
Stella

—–Original Message—–
From: Linda
To: general@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Fri, Jul 3, 2009 3:57 pm
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Y-DNA and Jews

I agree with Antonio Santillan. I do not speak Spanish, even though my father was born in Jalisco. It was forbidden in our house (except when he and my mother had secrets not for children’s ears). It is difficult to follow everything on this list unless a person is bilingual. My fondest wish would be to have a translating angel who would magically translate all the emails into both Spanish and English so we could all participate in whatever discussion interests us. Valuable information would not be missed.?
?
Maybe, one of these days, there will be such an invention for the net.?
?
Linda?
?
On Jul 3, 2009, at 5:03 PM, general-request@lists.nuestrosranchos.org wrote:?
?
> Message: 3?
> Date: Thu, 2 Jul 2009 23:32:10 +0000?
> From: Antonio Santillan ?
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Y-DNA and Jews?
> To: ?
> Message-ID: ?
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=”utf-8″?
>?
>?
> Un comentario a todos los compa?eros, no todos entendemos el > ingles, de tal manera que no participamos aun teniendo ganas y > datos que aportar a los distintos temas, sugerencia no podrian > tambien escribirlos en espa?ol y asi aumentar el numero de > participantes en las discuciones.?
>?
>?
>?
> Saludos cordiales?
>?
>?
>?
> Antonio Santillan?
>?
?

I’m a different Linda but we had the same rule in our family, No Spanish unless it was a secret plus my grandparents would tell us,” you’re an American so speak English!)  I know that they thought they were helping us to fit by not having a Spanish accent when we spoke English.  Our town was very divided racially and all any parents want’s is the best avenue for their children so I’m not angry or fell cheated.  I did take it in high school but found when you don’t use it you loose it!  When I went to Mexico they laughed at my slow broken Spanish but appreciated that I did try.  My family immigrated in 1916 from Jerez and both grandparents became citizens and spoke English to all the grandchildren.
 
LInda in B.C.

— On Fri, 7/3/09, sjlstar@aol.com wrote:

From: sjlstar@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Y-DNA and Jews
To: general@nuestrosranchos.org
Date: Friday, July 3, 2009, 4:11 PM

Linda,
why forbidden?
Stella

—–Original Message—–
From: Linda
To: general@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Fri, Jul 3, 2009 3:57 pm
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Y-DNA and Jews

I agree with Antonio Santillan. I do not speak Spanish, even though my father was born in Jalisco. It was forbidden in our house (except when he and my mother had secrets not for children’s ears). It is difficult to follow everything on this list unless a person is bilingual. My fondest wish would be to have a translating angel who would magically translate all the emails into both Spanish and English so we could all participate in whatever discussion interests us. Valuable information would not be missed.?
?
Maybe, one of these days, there will be such an invention for the net.?
?
Linda?
?
On Jul 3, 2009, at 5:03 PM, general-request@lists.nuestrosranchos.org wrote:?
?
> Message: 3?
> Date: Thu, 2 Jul 2009 23:32:10 +0000?
> From: Antonio Santillan ?
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Y-DNA and Jews?
> To: ?
> Message-ID: ?
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=”utf-8″?
>?
>?
> Un comentario a todos los compa?eros, no todos entendemos el > ingles, de tal manera que no participamos aun teniendo ganas y > datos que aportar a los distintos temas, sugerencia no podrian > tambien escribirlos en espa?ol y asi aumentar el numero de > participantes en las discuciones.?
>?
>?
>?
> Saludos cordiales?
>?
>?
>?
> Antonio Santillan?
>?
?

That’s funny. 
I’m glad I’ve broken that tradition. The problem now, I feel guilty using it, and slow learning..
That langauge just won’t stayed. Gosh! When visiting Mexico, people notice my problem.
They alway pointed out “What’s your last name again? And I respond by speaking in German.
I get the last laugh  seeing their lost expression!!
My elder said, no Spainish. But they didnt say “no” to other langauges.
Keep trying…

Robert R P25+

P.S..>  http://www.euroresidentes.com/translation/spanish_english_translation.htm

________________________________
From: Erlinda Castanon-Long
To: general@nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Friday, July 3, 2009 6:25:34 PM
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Y-DNA and Jews

I’m a different Linda but we had the same rule in our family, No Spanish unless it was a secret plus my grandparents would tell us,” you’re an American so speak English!)  I know that they thought they were helping us to fit by not having a Spanish accent when we spoke English.  Our town was very divided racially and all any parents want’s is the best avenue for their children so I’m not angry or fell cheated.  I did take it in high school but found when you don’t use it you loose it!  When I went to Mexico they laughed at my slow broken Spanish but appreciated that I did try.  My family immigrated in 1916 from Jerez and both grandparents became citizens and spoke English to all the grandchildren.
 
LInda in B.C.

— On Fri, 7/3/09, sjlstar@aol.com wrote:

From: sjlstar@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Y-DNA and Jews
To: general@nuestrosranchos.org
Date: Friday, July 3, 2009, 4:11 PM

Linda,
why forbidden?
Stella

—–Original Message—–
From: Linda
To: general@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Fri, Jul 3, 2009 3:57 pm
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Y-DNA and Jews

I agree with Antonio Santillan. I do not speak Spanish, even though my father was born in Jalisco. It was forbidden in our house (except when he and my mother had secrets not for children’s ears). It is difficult to follow everything on this list unless a person is bilingual. My fondest wish would be to have a translating angel who would magically translate all the emails into both Spanish and English so we could all participate in whatever discussion interests us. Valuable information would not be missed.?
?
Maybe, one of these days, there will be such an invention for the net.?
?
Linda?
?
On Jul 3, 2009, at 5:03 PM, general-request@lists.nuestrosranchos.org wrote:?
?
> Message: 3?
> Date: Thu, 2 Jul 2009 23:32:10 +0000?
> From: Antonio Santillan ?
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Y-DNA and Jews?
> To: ?
> Message-ID: ?
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=”utf-8″?
>?
>?
> Un comentario a todos los compa?eros, no todos entendemos el > ingles, de tal manera que no participamos aun teniendo ganas y > datos que aportar a los distintos temas, sugerencia no podrian > tambien escribirlos en espa?ol y asi aumentar el numero de > participantes en las discuciones.?
>?
>?
>?
> Saludos cordiales?
>?
>?
>?
> Antonio Santillan?
>?
?