Linda,
My Dad was also from Jerez, and he would have liked his children to speak Spanish, but my mother was a Native of New Mexico, and they spoke a dialect all their own that my father did not like and that Mexicans made fun of, so we preferred English to get ahead faster as Americans. We just did not need Spanish, anymore than most Mexicans have no need to learn English.
I don’t see the problem with using the online translation services. When I use those to translate from Spanish to English, it is like a robot speaking, the syntax is weird, but at least I get the gist of what is being said.
Emilie
Port Orchard, WA
—– Original Message —–
From: Erlinda Castanon-Long
To: general@nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Friday, July 03, 2009 5:25 PM
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Y-DNA and Jews
I’m a different Linda but we had the same rule in our family, No Spanish unless it was a secret plus my grandparents would tell us,” you’re an American so speak English!) I know that they thought they were helping us to fit by not having a Spanish accent when we spoke English. Our town was very divided racially and all any parents want’s is the best avenue for their children so I’m not angry or fell cheated. I did take it in high school but found when you don’t use it you loose it! When I went to Mexico they laughed at my slow broken Spanish but appreciated that I did try. My family immigrated in 1916 from Jerez and both grandparents became citizens and spoke English to all the grandchildren.
LInda in B.C.
— On Fri, 7/3/09, sjlstar@aol.com <sjlstar@aol.com> wrote:
From: sjlstar@aol.com <sjlstar@aol.com>
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Y-DNA and Jews
To: general@nuestrosranchos.org
Date: Friday, July 3, 2009, 4:11 PM
Linda,
why forbidden?
Stella
The primary and secondary language issue is complex. Both my parents are from Mexico, however, my first language was English, yet I am bilingual. When they immigrated to the US in the late 1940’s they moved into the “anglo” side of town for the better schools and witnessed the difficulty my older brother had and vowed they would try to make life easier for me when I was born 15 years later. They spoke to me primarily in English, but continued to use Spanish amongst themselves. My MA is in second language acquisiton and learning, and I now know why it worked. At any time in our lives we all acquire language in the same process: listening, understanding, and speaking. I didn’t speak Spanish until I was about 18 because of the lack of necessity and opportunity in my neighborhood and educational situation. However, when I decided to make the effort to speak Spanish, it did come and I am able to speak both languages without an accent. So you don’t necessarily lose it if you don’t use, it can lay “dormant” in the brain until awakened. Literacy is a whole other animal. You have to teach yourself or be taught to read and write. ABB
— longsjourney@yahoo.com wrote:
From: Erlinda Castanon-Long
To: general@nuestrosranchos.org
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Y-DNA and Jews
Date: Fri, 3 Jul 2009 17:25:34 -0700 (PDT)
I’m a different Linda but we had the same rule in our family, No Spanish unless it was a secret plus my grandparents would tell us,” you’re an American so speak English!) I know that they thought they were helping us to fit by not having a Spanish accent when we spoke English. Our town was very divided racially and all any parents want’s is the best avenue for their children so I’m not angry or fell cheated. I did take it in high school but found when you don’t use it you loose it! When I went to Mexico they laughed at my slow broken Spanish but appreciated that I did try. My family immigrated in 1916 from Jerez and both grandparents became citizens and spoke English to all the grandchildren.
LInda in B.C.
— On Fri, 7/3/09, sjlstar@aol.com wrote:
From: sjlstar@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Y-DNA and Jews
To: general@nuestrosranchos.org
Date: Friday, July 3, 2009, 4:11 PM
Linda,
why forbidden?
Stella
—–Original Message—–
From: Linda
To: general@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Fri, Jul 3, 2009 3:57 pm
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Y-DNA and Jews
I agree with Antonio Santillan. I do not speak Spanish, even though my father was born in Jalisco. It was forbidden in our house (except when he and my mother had secrets not for children’s ears). It is difficult to follow everything on this list unless a person is bilingual. My fondest wish would be to have a translating angel who would magically translate all the emails into both Spanish and English so we could all participate in whatever discussion interests us. Valuable information would not be missed.?
?
Maybe, one of these days, there will be such an invention for the net.?
?
Linda?
?
On Jul 3, 2009, at 5:03 PM, general-request@lists.nuestrosranchos.org wrote:?
?
> Message: 3?
> Date: Thu, 2 Jul 2009 23:32:10 +0000?
> From: Antonio Santillan ?
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Y-DNA and Jews?
> To: ?
> Message-ID: ?
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=”utf-8″?
>?
>?
> Un comentario a todos los compa?eros, no todos entendemos el > ingles, de tal manera que no participamos aun teniendo ganas y > datos que aportar a los distintos temas, sugerencia no podrian > tambien escribirlos en espa?ol y asi aumentar el numero de > participantes en las discuciones.?
>?
>?
>?
> Saludos cordiales?
>?
>?
>?
> Antonio Santillan?
>?
?
HaHa, my step grandmother is from New Mexico, I love her Spanish, New Mexico Spanish sounds kinda like Spanish from Los Altos de Jalisco, its like my grandpa says, “así es como nos quedo” referring the majority of Spanish blood in Los Altos, so oviously how they spoke reflects how we speak today. Its possible another reason why New Mexico sounds like Los Altos, because they received large number of alteños. It has a ring or whistle thingy, not sure how to describe it. Her family is one of the oldest families who settled New Mexico, “de Durán y Chávez.”
-Daniel
_________________________________________________________________
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Hi Linda, Emile, Alice et al.
I am shocked and interested in this new topic, ive been following it. My parents, always told me to speak Spanish, no questions. I was able to learn English just fine, like any other 5 year old, you catch it once you begin to hear it. My mother always told me its okay to Americanize but never abandon your mother tongue. I even sound like I was born in Mexico, I was able to get my parents’ ‘accent’. I am grateful to my parents who gave the most beautiful language in the world, wouldnt change it for nothing, I learned to love spanish and use it. I always use it any chance I have which raises eyebrows sometimes. I think we all a number of stories.
-Daniel Méndez del Camino
_________________________________________________________________
Stay up to date on your PC, the Web, and your mobile phone with Windows Live
http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/119462413/direct/01/
My house was different…my daddy was a white and mom from totatiche mexico…..mom spoke no english and dad spoke no spanish (few words here and there)…….my sister and I are both fully bilingual………but now using english more and speaking spanish only when I am at work or with my mom……..I feel I am just losing my spanish….?????? 🙁
Stella
—–Original Message—–
From: AliceBB
To: general@nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Sat, Jul 4, 2009 9:04 am
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Y-DNA and Jews
The primary and secondary language issue is complex. Both my parents are from
Mexico, however, my first language was English, yet I am bilingual. When they
immigrated to the US in the late 1940’s they moved into the “anglo” side of town
for the better schools and witnessed the difficulty my older brother had and
vowed they would try to make life easier for me when I was born 15 years later.
They spoke to me primarily in English, but continued to use Spanish amongst
themselves. My MA is in second language acquisiton and learning, and I now know
why it worked. At any time in our lives we all acquire language in the same
process: listening, understanding, and speaking. I didn’t speak Spanish until I
was about 18 because of the lack of necessity and opportunity in my neighborhood
and educational situation. However, when I decided to make the effort to speak
Spanish, it did come and I am able to speak both languages without an accent.
So you don’t necessarily lose it if you don’t use, it can lay “dormant” in the
brain until awakened. Literacy is a whole other animal. You have to teach
yourself or be taught to read and write. ABB
— longsjourney@yahoo.com wrote:
From: Erlinda Castanon-Long
To: general@nuestrosranchos.org
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Y-DNA and Jews
Date: Fri, 3 Jul 2009 17:25:34 -0700 (PDT)
I’m a different Linda but we had the same rule in our family, No Spanish unless
it was a secret plus my grandparents would tell us,” you’re an American so speak
English!)? I know that they thought they were helping us to fit by not having a
Spanish accent when we spoke English.? Our town was very divided racially and
all any parents want’s is the best avenue for their children so I’m not angry or
fell cheated.? I did take it in high school but found when you don’t use it you
loose it!? When I went to Mexico they laughed at my slow broken Spanish but
appreciated that I did try.? My family immigrated in 1916 from Jerez and both
grandparents became ci
tizens and spoke English to all the grandchildren.
?
LInda in B.C.
— On Fri, 7/3/09, sjlstar@aol.com wrote:
From: sjlstar@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Y-DNA and Jews
To: general@nuestrosranchos.org
Date: Friday, July 3, 2009, 4:11 PM
Linda,
why forbidden?
Stella
—–Original Message—–
From: Linda
To: general@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Fri, Jul 3, 2009 3:57 pm
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Y-DNA and Jews
I agree with Antonio Santillan. I do not speak Spanish, even though my father
was born in Jalisco. It was forbidden in our house (except when he and my mother
had secrets not for children’s ears). It is difficult to follow everything on
this list unless a person is bilingual. My fondest wish would be to have a
translating angel who would magically translate all the emails into both Spanish
and English so we could all participate in whatever discussion interests us.
Valuable information would not be missed.?
?
Maybe, one of these days, there will be such an invention for the net.?
?
Linda?
?
On Jul 3, 2009, at 5:03 PM, general-request@lists.nuestrosranchos.org wrote:?
?
> Message: 3?
> Date: Thu, 2 Jul 2009 23:32:10 +0000?
> From: Antonio Santillan ?
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Y-DNA and Jews?
> To: ?
> Message-ID: ?
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=”utf-8″?
>?
>?
> Un comentario a todos los compa?eros, no todos entendemos el > ingles, de tal
manera que no participamos aun teniendo ganas y > datos que aportar a los
distintos temas, sugerencia no podrian > tambien escribirlos en espa?ol y asi
aumentar el numero de > participantes en las discuciones.?
>?
>?
>?
> Saludos cordiales?
>?
>?
>?
> Antonio Santillan?
>?
?
Hi Daniel, I translated (Babelfish) for you.. it kinda makes you smile..
“Me dan una sacudida eléctrica y están interesado en este nuevo asunto, ive que lo sigue. Mis padres, siempre dichos me para hablar español, ningunas preguntas. Podía aprender la multa del inglés apenas, como cualquier otro 5 años, usted la cojo una vez que usted comienza a oírla. Mi madre siempre me dijo su autorización Americanize pero nunca abandonar su lengua materna. I incluso suena como mí nació en México, yo podía conseguir mi parents’ ‘ accent’. Soy agradecido a mis padres que dieron la lengua más hermosa del mundo, no lo cambiaría para nada, aprendí amar español y utilizarlo. Lo utilizo siempre cualquier ocasión que tenga que levanta las cejas a veces. Nos pienso todas un número de historias.”
— On Sat, 7/4/09, Daniel M�ndez del Camino wrote:
From: Daniel M�ndez del Camino
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Y-DNA and Jews/Spanish Language
To: general@nuestrosranchos.org
Date: Saturday, July 4, 2009, 11:51 AM
Hi Linda, Emile, Alice et al.
I am shocked and interested in this new topic, ive been following it. My parents, always told me to speak Spanish, no questions. I was able to learn English just fine, like any other 5 year old, you catch it once you begin to hear it. My mother always told me its okay to Americanize but never abandon your mother tongue. I even sound like I was born in Mexico, I was able to get my parents’ ‘accent’. I am grateful to my parents who gave the most beautiful language in the world, wouldnt change it for nothing, I learned to love spanish and use it. I always use it any chance I have which raises eyebrows sometimes. I think we all a number of stories.
-Daniel Méndez del Camino
_________________________________________________________________
Stay up to date on your PC, the Web, and your mobile phone with Windows Live
http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/119462413/direct/01/
Yes, it could be that people who were isolated in the earlier centuries like the New Mexicans were, and maybe in the Altos too, continued to speak Spanish the way it was spoken in earlier times. My friend from Spain told me that my mother used words that she knew were from the 18th century, and they did speak in a nasally tone, and skipped some consonents–for example, they would say “hequia” for hacequia (ditch?) and words ending in “ado” were pronounced as “ao”.
Emilie
Port Orchard, WA
—– Original Message —–
From: Daniel M�ndez del Camino
To: general@nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Saturday, July 04, 2009 11:44 AM
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Y-DNA and Jews/Spanish Language
HaHa, my step grandmother is from New Mexico, I love her Spanish, New Mexico Spanish sounds kinda like Spanish from Los Altos de Jalisco, its like my grandpa says, “así es como nos quedo” referring the majority of Spanish blood in Los Altos, so oviously how they spoke reflects how we speak today. Its possible another reason why New Mexico sounds like Los Altos, because they received large number of alteños. It has a ring or whistle thingy, not sure how to describe it. Her family is one of the oldest families who settled New Mexico, “de Durán y Chávez.”
-Daniel
_________________________________________________________________
Get 5 GB of storage with Windows Live Hotmail.
http://windowslive.com/Explore/Hotmail?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_hotmail_acq_5gb_112008
Wow this does make you laugh, I sort of understand it, the only thing I dont like about Translators is it gives a literal translation. Me dan una sacudida eléctrica actually says im being shocked literally instead of being shocked mentally. HAHAHA, Daniel
> Date: Sat, 4 Jul 2009 12:53:11 -0700
> From: longsjourney@yahoo.com
> To: general@nuestrosranchos.org
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Y-DNA and Jews/Spanish Language
>
> Hi Daniel, I translated (Babelfish) for you.. it kinda makes you smile..
>
> “Me dan una sacudida eléctrica y están interesado en este nuevo asunto, ive que lo sigue. Mis padres, siempre dichos me para hablar español, ningunas preguntas. Podía aprender la multa del inglés apenas, como cualquier otro 5 años, usted la cojo una vez que usted comienza a oírla. Mi madre siempre me dijo su autorización Americanize pero nunca abandonar su lengua materna. I incluso suena como mí nació en México, yo podía conseguir mi parents’ ‘ accent’. Soy agradecido a mis padres que dieron la lengua más hermosa del mundo, no lo cambiaría para nada, aprendí amar español y utilizarlo. Lo utilizo siempre cualquier ocasión que tenga que levanta las cejas a veces. Nos pienso todas un número de historias.”
>
> — On Sat, 7/4/09, Daniel M�ndez del Camino wrote:
>
>
> From: Daniel M�ndez del Camino
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Y-DNA and Jews/Spanish Language
> To: general@nuestrosranchos.org
> Date: Saturday, July 4, 2009, 11:51 AM
>
>
>
> Hi Linda, Emile, Alice et al.
>
>
> I am shocked and interested in this new topic, ive been following it. My parents, always told me to speak Spanish, no questions. I was able to learn English just fine, like any other 5 year old, you catch it once you begin to hear it. My mother always told me its okay to Americanize but never abandon your mother tongue. I even sound like I was born in Mexico, I was able to get my parents’ ‘accent’. I am grateful to my parents who gave the most beautiful language in the world, wouldnt change it for nothing, I learned to love spanish and use it. I always use it any chance I have which raises eyebrows sometimes. I think we all a number of stories.
>
>
>
> -Daniel Méndez del Camino
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Stay up to date on your PC, the Web, and your mobile phone with Windows Live
> http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/119462413/direct/01/
I believe I mentioned, I never lost Spanish, just as a child had no practical use for it. By the time I attended UT I was able to place out of 21 hours of Spanish with a perfect score, so the language was there, only under utilized. This being an English-speaking nation, and English being one of the most sought after languages in the world for socio-economical reasons, I believe my parents absolutely did the right thing. They came to the US, as most people do, for its economic opportunities. I’d find it shocking if they had allowed me to enter school with an English language deficiency that would place me behind, as my older brother was. They never told me I couldn’t or shouldn’t speak Spanish, they wanted me to start my education here competing on a level playing field with regards to English. I’m sure that you’re aware that at that time, being bilingual was not something that was particularly sought after here. It’s funny that although my first language was English, culturally, I knew few expressions and idioms because my parents didn’t know them. It took me many years to learn them, whereas, it’s the “dichos” I can rattle off. ABB
From: Daniel M�ndez del Camino
To:
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Y-DNA and Jews/Spanish Language
Date: Sat, 4 Jul 2009 11:51:27 -0700
Hi Linda, Emile, Alice et al.
I am shocked and interested in this new topic, ive been following it. My parents, always told me to speak Spanish, no questions. I was able to learn English just fine, like any other 5 year old, you catch it once you begin to hear it. My mother always told me its okay to Americanize but never abandon your mother tongue. I even sound like I was born in Mexico, I was able to get my parents’ ‘accent’. I am grateful to my parents who gave the most beautiful language in the world, wouldnt change it for nothing, I learned to love spanish and use it. I always use it any chance I have which raises eyebrows sometimes. I think we all a number of stories.
-Daniel Méndez del Camino
_________________________________________________________________
Stay up to date on your PC, the Web, and your mobile phone with Windows Live
http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/119462413/direct/01/
Its ironic…My family has been in the States for 3 born generations(and the
crossover generation before that). My grandparents, first generation(at
least..on my grandma’s side..dunno much about my grandfather’s side) born
here, speak/spoke it but also are native english speakers. My mother and my
aunts/uncles all were taught English and didn’t learn Spanish(for those that
know it now) until high-school or college or just curiosity as adults. As
far as my mother goes, she has some understanding ability but no speaking
ability whatsoever. She’s as bleached as they come. Myself and my brothers
have learned Spanish only through high-school, although I personally took
only 2 years and have a very weak vocabulary and crippled grammar. In
university, I took up the study of Hebrew instead of continuing with
Spanish(and its funny because I’m in San Diego)…….When intoxicated I
tend to randomly pick either tongue to express myself, sometimes both.
As for the topic of Jewish DNA….I’m currently studying potential links to
Sephardim and the Conversos/Marranos in Zacatecas. Its hard because the 3
epicenters of Jews in Mexico at any given era where they were present would
be Guadalajara(Jalisco), Monterrey (Nuevo Leon), and Mexico City (DF),
though I know quite a few Jews from TJ and around here too. Zacatecas is a
middle-ground for all 3 of those……….Given how by name, some of my
family names come up as Sephardic, and how my family are as referred to in
some of the e-mails here “Norteno”(lighter features,etc.) and come from an
oral history of European roots(Spanish and French), this topic has great
personal interest. Currently pending is a FamilyTree DNA test(Y-37 and
mtDNA..but only my mtDNA is Mexican) so I’ll see whether my suspicions are
correct.
That said…Don’t be ashamed or offended if your ancestors aren’t
“Visigoths”. The Sephardim contributed a great deal and financed the
expeditions. It is because of them that Spain had fulfilled and realized
its’ potential to become a dominant power….My ancestor on my father’s side
is supposedly one of the chief financiers of Columbus before the Expulsion
forced them out. Look up Meir Melamed and the Abarbanels. Without that
money, there is not so much likelihood that they would’ve sent out
colonizing parties when they did. No colonies or plunder = no economy = no
Spain. If your ancestors are Berbers, they also contributed to Spain(Muslim
Spain was supposed to be more advanced scientifically and socially).
On Sat, Jul 4, 2009 at 12:40 PM, wrote:
> My house was different…my daddy was a white and mom from totatiche
> mexico…..mom spoke no english and dad spoke no spanish (few words here and
> there)…….my sister and I are both fully bilingual………but now using
> english more and speaking spanish only when I am at work or with my
> mom……..I feel I am just losing my spanish….?????? 🙁
> Stella
>
>
> —–Original Message—–
> From: AliceBB
> To: general@nuestrosranchos.org
> Sent: Sat, Jul 4, 2009 9:04 am
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Y-DNA and Jews
>
>
>
> The primary and secondary language issue is complex. Both my parents are
> from
> Mexico, however, my first language was English, yet I am bilingual. When
> they
> immigrated to the US in the late 1940’s they moved into the “anglo” side of
> town
> for the better schools and witnessed the difficulty my older brother had
> and
> vowed they would try to make life easier for me when I was born 15 years
> later.
> They spoke to me primarily in English, but continued to use Spanish amongst
> themselves. My MA is in second language acquisiton and learning, and I now
> know
> why it worked. At any time in our lives we all acquire language in the
> same
> process: listening, understanding, and speaking. I didn’t speak Spanish
> until I
> was about 18 because of the lack of necessity and opportunity in my
> neighborhood
> and educational situation. However, when I decided to make the effort to
> speak
> Spanish, it did come and I am able to speak both languages without an
> accent.
> So you don’t necessarily lose it if you don’t use, it can lay “dormant” in
> the
> brain until awakened. Literacy is a whole other animal. You have to teach
> yourself or be taught to read and write. ABB
>
> — longsjourney@yahoo.com wrote:
>
> From: Erlinda Castanon-Long
> To: general@nuestrosranchos.org
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Y-DNA and Jews
> Date: Fri, 3 Jul 2009 17:25:34 -0700 (PDT)
>
> I’m a different Linda but we had the same rule in our family, No Spanish
> unless
> it was a secret plus my grandparents would tell us,” you’re an American so
> speak
> English!)? I know that they thought they were helping us to fit by not
> having a
> Spanish accent when we spoke English.? Our town was very divided racially
> and
> all any parents want’s is the best avenue for their children so I’m not
> angry or
> fell cheated.? I did take it in high school but found when you don’t use it
> you
> loose it!? When I went to Mexico they laughed at my slow broken Spanish but
> appreciated that I did try.? My family immigrated in 1916 from Jerez and
> both
> grandparents became ci
> tizens and spoke English to all the grandchildren.
> ?
> LInda in B.C.
>
> — On Fri, 7/3/09, sjlstar@aol.com wrote:
>
>
> From: sjlstar@aol.com
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Y-DNA and Jews
> To: general@nuestrosranchos.org
> Date: Friday, July 3, 2009, 4:11 PM
>
>
> Linda,
> why forbidden?
> Stella
>
>
> —–Original Message—–
> From: Linda
> To: general@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
> Sent: Fri, Jul 3, 2009 3:57 pm
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Y-DNA and Jews
>
>
> I agree with Antonio Santillan. I do not speak Spanish, even though my
> father
> was born in Jalisco. It was forbidden in our house (except when he and my
> mother
> had secrets not for children’s ears). It is difficult to follow everything
> on
> this list unless a person is bilingual. My fondest wish would be to have a
> translating angel who would magically translate all the emails into both
> Spanish
> and English so we could all participate in whatever discussion interests
> us.
> Valuable information would not be missed.?
> ?
> Maybe, one of these days, there will be such an invention for the net.?
> ?
> Linda?
> ?
> On Jul 3, 2009, at 5:03 PM, general-request@lists.nuestrosranchos.orgwrote:?
> ?
> > Message: 3?
> > Date: Thu, 2 Jul 2009 23:32:10 +0000?
> > From: Antonio Santillan ?
> > Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Y-DNA and Jews?
> > To: ?
> > Message-ID: ?
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=”utf-8″?
> >?
> >?
> > Un comentario a todos los compa?eros, no todos entendemos el > ingles, de
> tal
> manera que no participamos aun teniendo ganas y > datos que aportar a los
> distintos temas, sugerencia no podrian > tambien escribirlos en espa?ol y
> asi
> aumentar el numero de > participantes en las discuciones.?
> >?
> >?
> >?
> > Saludos cordiales?
> >?
> >?
> >?
> > Antonio Santillan?
> >?
> ?
I found this thread very interesting to read. I myself do not speak spanish even though my parents did (mostly talking about us kids at the dinner table) I understand a few words here and there, but not much. It surprised me to learn that my mothers father who was from the old Californio families was not raised speaking spanish until he met my grandmother who was from Durangom, Mexico.
I was born and raised in the eastern part of Los Angeles county and my father did not want his children to learn spanish for fear we would be discriminated against. We did not live in the barrio like my grandparents (my Los Altos ancestors), but on the north end of town in a middle class neighborhood, in an all Caucasian neighborhood. I have heard stories regarding my great uncles who applied for work with the county of L.A. and were not hired due to their ethic background. The 1930’s was also a time in this county where Mexican/Americans were being deported to Mexico even though they were born in the U.S. as were their parents….they were bascially deported because they were dark Mexicans. Some cousins that I know of who were light-skinned Mexicians claiming they came from Spain just so that they would not be deported.
I just wanted to add my little story.
And by the way, I did my DNA about 2 years ago and belong to Haplo group C. Very interesting stuff.
Rose
Hi all,
Don’t be surprised that many of us “older” first generation Americans
don’t speak our parents mother tongue. My father was born in
Tepatitlan de Morelos in 1909. That was 100 years ago with 100 years
ago attitudes. He came to the States in 1923, following his older
brother who came a few years earlier. His brother settled in the
“Mexican neighborhood” of Milwaukee. My father raised his family in
the “Polish neighborhood”. My father and his sister both married
Anglos, his brother married a Mexican. Dad told stories about his
family back in Mexico but most of the stories were fabricated. One
example was that his father or grandfather came from Spain. I’ve
traced his direct male ancestors back to around 1820 and they were
all born in Tepatitlan. So much for his pride in his heritage. It
was the “old way.” As you can guess by my father’s age, I am not a
spring chicken and learning a new language is not easy. I’ve picked
up enough to read the Baptismos, etc., but not enough to follow the
Spanish threads on this list. As someone earlier mentioned, the
translators available online make for comical reading.
I love my heritage and wish I knew more about it. I am trying, but
it is slow going. I would like to find a fellow researcher who is
interested in Tepatitlan. I get help when necessary, but it’s not
the same as having a research buddy who is bilingual.
Good luck to you all in your research. One day I may learn more
Spanish. Until then, the bilingual translations on this list are
great when they are there.
Linda Romero
hi linda,
I am about to start my research for my Tepatitlan branch, I am going to look
for the marriges file of 1854, so I am almost sure I will be looking for the
film of bautisms you need, give me the exact data cross your fingers and
I´ll tell you my findings.
Well, my english is not quite good, I hope you undestand me, if you or
someone else need translation, and you settle with my english I will be glad
on doing it.
Patty Haro
On Sun, Jul 5, 2009 at 12:15 PM, Linda wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> Don’t be surprised that many of us “older” first generation Americans don’t
> speak our parents mother tongue. My father was born in Tepatitlan de
> Morelos in 1909. That was 100 years ago with 100 years ago attitudes. He
> came to the States in 1923, following his older brother who came a few years
> earlier. His brother settled in the “Mexican neighborhood” of Milwaukee.
> My father raised his family in the “Polish neighborhood”. My father and
> his sister both married Anglos, his brother married a Mexican. Dad told
> stories about his family back in Mexico but most of the stories were
> fabricated. One example was that his father or grandfather came from Spain.
> I’ve traced his direct male ancestors back to around 1820 and they were all
> born in Tepatitlan. So much for his pride in his heritage. It was the “old
> way.” As you can guess by my father’s age, I am not a spring chicken and
> learning a new language is not easy. I’ve picked up enough to read the
> Baptismos, etc., but not enough to follow the Spanish threads on this list.
> As someone earlier mentioned, the translators available online make for
> comical reading.
>
> I love my heritage and wish I knew more about it. I am trying, but it is
> slow going. I would like to find a fellow researcher who is interested in
> Tepatitlan. I get help when necessary, but it’s not the same as having a
> research buddy who is bilingual.
>
> Good luck to you all in your research. One day I may learn more Spanish.
> Until then, the bilingual translations on this list are great when they are
> there.
>
> Linda Romero
Hola a todos, viendo el post hoy en cuanto a resultados ADN-Y se me ocurrio que habia dicho que compartiera mis resultados en cuanto me llegaran. Disculpame por no haberlo hecho aunque lo mas seguro es que nadie dejo de dormir por eso ( JA !) Mis Y resultados ADN-Y son E1b1b1a2Version Corta E-V13. Es el tercer más común haplogrupo entre los hombres de Europea y considerado uno de los bases o fundaciones de los grupos de Europe. Es el unico subgrupo E que se encuentra con baja frecuencia(2% ) en el Norte de Africa. Este subgrupo esta asociado con la península balcánica donde se encuentra el porcentaje mas grande en el mundo de E-V13. Se usa para identificar poblaciones ancianas como los ¿illyrians?, tracios y macedonios y tambien los griegos. Poblaciones modernos que tienen alta porcentaje de E-V13 son albaneses, griegos peloponesos, búlgaros y macedonios.
En España se encuentra en baja cantidad y principalmente esta concentrado en el occidente, los porcentajes son Extremadura (9%), Galicia (7%) y en el Noroeste de Castilla La Vieja (6%). Pensaban, por un tiempo, que se encontraba en España por la exploración y las colonias de los griegos, pero las colonias griegas solamante se encuentran en la costa oriental de las regiones de Cataluña y Valencia. La gran mayoria de “E” ADN-Y en España esta asociado con los bereberes, pero este es subgrupo E-M81.
Una explicación de la llegada a España y el oeste de Europa, de un marcador genético tan predominante en la peninsula balcánica y el mediterráneo oriental, se puede encontrar en un pueblo en Gales llamado Abergele. Hicieron un estudio de los residentes y 7 resultados de los 18 hombres tenian el marcador E-V13. Hicieron otro estudio mas amplio que concluyó que 40% de los hombres en el pueblo tenian el marcador E-V13. Resulta que en la antigüedad Abergele era un pueblo Romano importante. No estaba acuartelado por RomanosItalianos sino por auxiliares Tracios y otros hombres de origen balcánico. Existe la posibilidad que pasó lo mismo en España, tal vez el marcador llegó con los auxiliarios en el ejército Romano. El marcador E-V13 tambien llegó a Afganistán y Pakistán con los hombres del ejército de Alejandro Magno. Una pequeña porcentaje se encuentra entre los grupos que reclaman que esos hombres son sus antepasados.
¿Que significa todo eso? Pues, una cosa, soy el único E-V13 en el sitio de Gary Felix, “Geneology of Mexico”. Hay otros que tienen los mismos resultados de 1237, pero no han hecho el análisis “deep clade”, asi que ¿quien sabe? En cuestion de ayudarme con mi estudio genealógico, no ha ayudado hasta el momento. Pienso que mis antepasados posiblemente eran de una de las provincias occidentales, tal vez Extramadura, pero todo es especulación en este momento. Discuplas por aburrirles! Gracias por sus paciencia!
Roberto ~
Traducido por Armando Antuñano
Hi Robert,
We most be related, my grandma’s last name is Casillas, from Los Altos, Alcala Casillas. Your paragraph seems to describe what I have from my mom about her family.
Gabriela
> To: general@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
> From: gandalf3.1@netzero.com
> Date: Thu, 2 Jul 2009 12:11:39 -0700
> Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Y DNA Los Altos
>
> Hi Mendez, very interesting post. I’ve never had the pleasure of visiting my father’s birthplace, San Jose De Bazarte in Los Altos. My great grandfather is buried under the alter in the small church there, from what I hear my family were haciendados who were one of the first spanish familes to settle there. I have pictures of them and they were all tall, blonde haired and blue eyed except for my grandfather who was tall, but had jet black hair. They were all horsemen, as many in Los Altos are, according to my grandmother, the Gonzalez’s lived in the saddle.
>
> They did also intermarry with their 2nd and 3rd cousins of the Casillas clan, which is also very interesting. Another interesting note, I read in a study that when the Visgoths migrated out of there original homeland, one of the stops they made before ending up in Spain was the Balkans, where my DNA Haplogroup is found in high numbers. It’s also noted via historical evidence that other non gothic groups joined them on their migrations, such as the Alans, who were a Samartian Scythic people. Who knows ? maybe some Thracians did the same and that’s how my DNA ended up in Spain ? Thanks for your great post ! Robert Gonzalez ~
